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It's not decentralized. There's a center. The center used to be Jon Postel, now it's ICANN. It's a hierarchy of delegated authority (aka "bailiwick"... aka

It's not decentralized. There's a center. The center used to be Jon Postel, now it's ICANN. It's a hierarchy of delegated authority (aka "bailiwick"... aka "domain") emanating from the center. > no one entity owns the entire data set Because of the delegated authority. But the authority is all delegated from a center. It means there's a central point where names can be removed. The central point owns as much of the data set as they choose to own.

acdha 5y ago
> The central point owns as much of the data set as they choose to own. Less inaccurately, ICANN has social consensus to be trusted with the root delegations. If they abuse that position, that consensus would very quickly disappear because they don’t own any of it.
- DarylZero 5y ago
  That is the kind of thing that one says about a centralized system when they want to defend its center.
  - acdha 5y ago
    So … what’s your alternative?
    - DarylZero 5y ago
      I'm not here to debate DNS. I only explain that DNS delegation is structured with a central `.` zone. The central node is all-powerful. It can remove any name by removing the top level delegation for that name.
      - egberts1 5y ago
        Try running a root server like I do for myself. You will reevaluate what you have just said by then.
        DarylZero 5y ago
        Sure you can run your own internet too and incompatibly use the same addresses IANA assigns. Guess that proves IP addresses aren't centrally allocated.
southerntofu 5y ago
> But the authority is all delegated from a center. Yes, but authority can be delegated recursively, thus disempowering the top of the tree (ICANN) over the leaf nodes (the rest of us). The root server could technically lie and say thepiratebay.org.'s A record is 127.0.0.1, but recursive resolution (from right to left) prevents that so that only a direct parent could lie. So because you can get names from pretty much everyone and only a direct parent has authority over you, power is very balanced overall.
- DarylZero 5y ago
  > only a direct parent has authority over you, power is very balanced overall That's silly. There's a single organization in charge of everything, with total enforcement power. > The root server could technically lie and say thepiratebay.org.'s A record is 127.0.0.1 They don't have to "lie." The people who own `.` can simply issue public orders to the people who own `org.`. They can set policies, demand payment, demand the removal of hosts, and so on. Since `.` has the power to remove the `org.` delegation, the owners of `org.` are forced to comply.
  - southerntofu 5y ago
    > The people who own `.` can simply issue public orders to the people who own `org.`. They can set policies, demand payment, demand the removal of hosts, and so on. Maybe i've missed a few episodes in the DNS wars saga. Do you have a few links on this topic? I wasn't aware that ICANN felt powerful enough to threaten to take entire TLDs off the root zone.
    - DarylZero 5y ago
      I'm not talking about the feelings of anyone involved in ICANN. I'm talking about what the technological function of the DNS root is. > I wasn't aware that ICANN felt powerful enough to threaten to take entire TLDs off the root zone. What do you think happens if you don't pay ICANN the fee for a gTLD? Of course, they're not going to remove `org.` -- and `org.` isn't going to defy their rules.

acdha 5y ago

> The central point owns as much of the data set as they choose to own. Less inaccurately, ICANN has social consensus to be trusted with the root delegations. If they abuse that position, that consensus would very quickly disappear because they don’t own any of it.

DarylZero 5y ago
That is the kind of thing that one says about a centralized system when they want to defend its center.
- acdha 5y ago
  So … what’s your alternative?
  - DarylZero 5y ago
    I'm not here to debate DNS. I only explain that DNS delegation is structured with a central `.` zone. The central node is all-powerful. It can remove any name by removing the top level delegation for that name.
    - egberts1 5y ago
      Try running a root server like I do for myself. You will reevaluate what you have just said by then.
      - DarylZero 5y ago
        Sure you can run your own internet too and incompatibly use the same addresses IANA assigns. Guess that proves IP addresses aren't centrally allocated.

southerntofu 5y ago

> But the authority is all delegated from a center. Yes, but authority can be delegated recursively, thus disempowering the top of the tree (ICANN) over the leaf nodes (the rest of us). The root server could technically lie and say thepiratebay.org.'s A record is 127.0.0.1, but recursive resolution (from right to left) prevents that so that only a direct parent could lie. So because you can get names from pretty much everyone and only a direct parent has authority over you, power is very balanced overall.

DarylZero 5y ago
> only a direct parent has authority over you, power is very balanced overall That's silly. There's a single organization in charge of everything, with total enforcement power. > The root server could technically lie and say thepiratebay.org.'s A record is 127.0.0.1 They don't have to "lie." The people who own `.` can simply issue public orders to the people who own `org.`. They can set policies, demand payment, demand the removal of hosts, and so on. Since `.` has the power to remove the `org.` delegation, the owners of `org.` are forced to comply.
- southerntofu 5y ago
  > The people who own `.` can simply issue public orders to the people who own `org.`. They can set policies, demand payment, demand the removal of hosts, and so on. Maybe i've missed a few episodes in the DNS wars saga. Do you have a few links on this topic? I wasn't aware that ICANN felt powerful enough to threaten to take entire TLDs off the root zone.
  - DarylZero 5y ago
    I'm not talking about the feelings of anyone involved in ICANN. I'm talking about what the technological function of the DNS root is. > I wasn't aware that ICANN felt powerful enough to threaten to take entire TLDs off the root zone. What do you think happens if you don't pay ICANN the fee for a gTLD? Of course, they're not going to remove `org.` -- and `org.` isn't going to defy their rules.