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I think it's a fairly logical outlook coming from a few assumptions. If we assume: (1) Political policy is largely outside of an individual's control. (2) Pol

I think it's a fairly logical outlook coming from a few assumptions. If we assume: (1) Political policy is largely outside of an individual's control. (2) Political policy is more likely to be proposed when it is more favored by the masses (less backlash). (3) Opposite of (2), political policy is less likely to be proposed if it seems less favorable to the masses, even if those in power think it's a good outcome. (4) Legislatures take perceived public opinion into account when deciding to propose policy. Then, if you believe a vaccine mandate is likely to be accepted in the current political climate, and you are against a vaccine mandate (due to bodily autonomy or something), then you may not want to contribute to perceived mass support by contributing to higher vaccine numbers, even if you support the vaccine itself.

Domenic_S 5y ago
But the COVID-specific position isn't logically consistent. The author tells us in passing that they got a yellow fever vaccine, which is required -- or "mandated", if you will -- for travel to many African countries [0]. US schools, universities, child care facilities, and the military have mandated many vaccines for decades. George freakin' Washington mandated smallpox inoculation [1] for the continental army. I truly can't understand why a COVID vaccine mandate, and only a COVID vaccine mandate, is suddenly tyranny. [0] https://africacdc.org/disease/yellow-fever/ https://africacdc.org/disease/yellow-fever/ [1] https://www.governing.com/now/the-long-history-of-mandated-vaccines-in-the-united-states https://www.governing.com/now/the-long-history-of-mandated-v...
- xboxnolifes 5y ago
  I definitely agree with you that covid vaccine mandate talk is so much hotter than general vaccine talk for seemingly illogical reasons. Personally, I'm undecided on my own view on requirements in general, mostly because all previous vaccine requirements (that I am aware of) happened prior to the start of my lifetime. I grew up with them as just being "the norm" without really thinking about it. However, there is one difference that I can tell that is pretty major from all other vaccine requirements that I can think of. The talk around a covid vaccine mandate is one that would impact everything about normal societal life. All other vaccine requirements I am aware of are generally tied to the things you mentioned, but once you are an adult that isn't in the military or going to certain countries, you basically never have any vaccine check. Tying the mandate to school would make it most similar to other vaccine requirements, but that would also be applying the requirement to the least vulnerable group.
- tharne 5y ago
  > I truly can't understand why a COVID vaccine mandate, and only a COVID vaccine mandate, is suddenly tyranny. I have not managed to wrap my head around this one either. As a society we've been mandating vaccines for almost a century now. Whatever your opinion on vaccine mandates, that ship sailed before most of us were born.
  - kcplate 5y ago
    > As a society we've been mandating vaccines for almost a century now In the US the Covid vaccine “mandate” is not actually a public mandate, as there is no mandate to specifically vaccinate every American. It’s basically the federal government blackmailing some employers through regulation to mandate vaccination as a condition of employment by creating punitive costs to the employer that can’t be eliminated without forcing their employees to vaccinate. I honestly think it would have been less controversial if it had been a public mandate…everyone gets vaccinated—or like the ACA mandate, your hit with a tax penalty. The problem is to do that and for it to survive legal muster, they would need to have it come up through Congress as a law. How it went down is simply shady and folks don’t like it when their government is shady.
    - rsj_hn 5y ago
      Yes, this is a well-reasoned and accurate summary, and also why courts are placing injunctions on some of these executive orders -- because they are shady. The problem is that the U.S. is a Federalist system where states are supposed to take the lead on public health, and national coordination is hard with a divided Federal government.
- spurgu 5y ago
  I think it's a combination of vaccines being tooted as a fix-all solution (still to this day, with Omicron, sigh), while at the same time lacking a thorough actual plan and/but not honest about the uncertainties involved (with all the above), and driving it all with irrational fear.
- kcplate 5y ago
  > I truly can't understand why a COVID vaccine mandate, and only a COVID vaccine mandate, is suddenly tyranny. Because it’s been framed to be completely political—in us vs them terms and messaging around that framing has been specifically targeting a group of people (the them) previously described as “deplorable” by the authority and those that support the authority (the us). If you are going to create classes via authoritarianism, you are going to create resistance.
kelseyfrog 5y ago
This is much more laid out than the article. Thank you. The author would do well to be more clear on their real point - so much of it is buried in the epilogue. For reference, they seem to be: - Medical procedures [should not] be forced onto people without an impenetrable foundation of evidence to support them - Vaccination status should not limit people's ability to dine in restaurants and board planes with impunity[1] - No one should be shamed for not being vaccinated Part of me wonders what they author thinks would be an "impenetrable foundation of evidence", but if it's written similarly, we may never know. 1. This was difficult to tie back to vaccines directly. It seemed to be based on an idea that rational actors should be able to make individual choices.

Domenic_S 5y ago

But the COVID-specific position isn't logically consistent. The author tells us in passing that they got a yellow fever vaccine, which is required -- or "mandated", if you will -- for travel to many African countries [0]. US schools, universities, child care facilities, and the military have mandated many vaccines for decades. George freakin' Washington mandated smallpox inoculation [1] for the continental army. I truly can't understand why a COVID vaccine mandate, and only a COVID vaccine mandate, is suddenly tyranny. [0] https://africacdc.org/disease/yellow-fever/ https://africacdc.org/disease/yellow-fever/ [1] https://www.governing.com/now/the-long-history-of-mandated-vaccines-in-the-united-states https://www.governing.com/now/the-long-history-of-mandated-v...

xboxnolifes 5y ago
I definitely agree with you that covid vaccine mandate talk is so much hotter than general vaccine talk for seemingly illogical reasons. Personally, I'm undecided on my own view on requirements in general, mostly because all previous vaccine requirements (that I am aware of) happened prior to the start of my lifetime. I grew up with them as just being "the norm" without really thinking about it. However, there is one difference that I can tell that is pretty major from all other vaccine requirements that I can think of. The talk around a covid vaccine mandate is one that would impact everything about normal societal life. All other vaccine requirements I am aware of are generally tied to the things you mentioned, but once you are an adult that isn't in the military or going to certain countries, you basically never have any vaccine check. Tying the mandate to school would make it most similar to other vaccine requirements, but that would also be applying the requirement to the least vulnerable group.
tharne 5y ago
> I truly can't understand why a COVID vaccine mandate, and only a COVID vaccine mandate, is suddenly tyranny. I have not managed to wrap my head around this one either. As a society we've been mandating vaccines for almost a century now. Whatever your opinion on vaccine mandates, that ship sailed before most of us were born.
- kcplate 5y ago
  > As a society we've been mandating vaccines for almost a century now In the US the Covid vaccine “mandate” is not actually a public mandate, as there is no mandate to specifically vaccinate every American. It’s basically the federal government blackmailing some employers through regulation to mandate vaccination as a condition of employment by creating punitive costs to the employer that can’t be eliminated without forcing their employees to vaccinate. I honestly think it would have been less controversial if it had been a public mandate…everyone gets vaccinated—or like the ACA mandate, your hit with a tax penalty. The problem is to do that and for it to survive legal muster, they would need to have it come up through Congress as a law. How it went down is simply shady and folks don’t like it when their government is shady.
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    Yes, this is a well-reasoned and accurate summary, and also why courts are placing injunctions on some of these executive orders -- because they are shady. The problem is that the U.S. is a Federalist system where states are supposed to take the lead on public health, and national coordination is hard with a divided Federal government.
spurgu 5y ago
I think it's a combination of vaccines being tooted as a fix-all solution (still to this day, with Omicron, sigh), while at the same time lacking a thorough actual plan and/but not honest about the uncertainties involved (with all the above), and driving it all with irrational fear.
kcplate 5y ago
> I truly can't understand why a COVID vaccine mandate, and only a COVID vaccine mandate, is suddenly tyranny. Because it’s been framed to be completely political—in us vs them terms and messaging around that framing has been specifically targeting a group of people (the them) previously described as “deplorable” by the authority and those that support the authority (the us). If you are going to create classes via authoritarianism, you are going to create resistance.

kelseyfrog 5y ago

This is much more laid out than the article. Thank you. The author would do well to be more clear on their real point - so much of it is buried in the epilogue. For reference, they seem to be: - Medical procedures [should not] be forced onto people without an impenetrable foundation of evidence to support them - Vaccination status should not limit people's ability to dine in restaurants and board planes with impunity[1] - No one should be shamed for not being vaccinated Part of me wonders what they author thinks would be an "impenetrable foundation of evidence", but if it's written similarly, we may never know. 1. This was difficult to tie back to vaccines directly. It seemed to be based on an idea that rational actors should be able to make individual choices.