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I really don't get why using fineliners [0] for writing is so unpopular outside of a few European countries. You get consistent line thickness. You don't need t

I really don't get why using fineliners [0] for writing is so unpopular outside of a few European countries. You get consistent line thickness. You don't need to push the tip into the paper, just letting it hover on top. There is barely any friction/resistance. The ink won't escape if you stop the pen for a second... I switched to using them over a decade ago, and using any regular pen now feels like stone age tech. [0] https://www.staedtler.com/intl/en/products/products-for-colouring/fineliners/ https://www.staedtler.com/intl/en/products/products-for-colo...

KerryJones 5y ago
A housemate recently suggested a similar pen: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006IFJN/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006IFJN/ They replaced all my other favorite pens, my handwriting looks good, so little effort, it's a miracle
- yowzadave 5y ago
  I used to work as an architect, and these are the most common pens people used for sketching on trace paper. Nice and cheap, I love that they sell them by the box.
oldsecondhand 5y ago
A lot of fineliners have bad ergonomy. I also don't like that they feel cheap and disposable. I ocassionally use Marvy fineliners for writing, and the friction of the head sime low enough with 0.5mm+ nibs, and they seem to last quite long, but the above drawbacks still apply.
itcrowd 5y ago
I like them too, but I will say that: a) on very smooth paper, it will smear. Needs time to dry b) on rougher paper, I found it to "spread out" like a small inkblot. As if the paper "sucks" the ink in a bit. Perfectly fine for regular paper
- scotu 5y ago
  in the fountain pen world we call the "spread out" effect "feathering" I always thought it was a cool name :)
  - pjerem 5y ago
    In France we call the fountain pen Stylo Plume. Which literally stands for Feather Pen. And the part from which the ink flow is called the plume (feather).
    - kergonath 5y ago
      In this context, “plume” would probably be translated to “quill” rather than “feather” (or “nib”, for the metal bit that touches the paper). It’s ambiguous in French, because if is the same word for the bird thing and the writing instrument.
      - edu 5y ago
        Same in Spanish with “pluma” for the writing tool and the bird-thing.
tablespoon 5y ago
Don't the nubs on those wear down or the pens dry out? Those Staedtler ones may be better quality, but I recall using fineliner-type pens occasionally when I was a kid, and didn't really like them. > You get consistent line thickness. Isn't that also true of various kinds of rollerball pens/gel pens? > You don't need to push the tip into the paper, just letting it hover on top. There is barely any friction/resistance. That seems like it'd feel unnatural.
- DizzyDoo 5y ago
  I've had those Staedtler 'pigment liner' pens that are in the parent comment's link, deeply disappointing. They dried out very quickly, and I do really try to take care of my pens. My go-to fine-liners, as someone who sketches/inks, are the Sakura Pigma Micron pens. They used to be much harder to find but nowadays I see them all over, in most art supply shops, they're pretty popular.
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > are the Sakura Pigma Micron pens Plus they're pigment based, so the ink is durable and long lasting. I actually have a few for some that I'd like to last a long time. However, I'm not a huge fan of how they fell. It's like writing with a marker. I understand gel ink pens are pigment based too, but archival stability doesn't seem to be as much of a selling point for them, so I don't know if they're as suitable/stable. I tend to use them for day to day stuff.
  - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
    I draw, and my main complaint about Sakura micron: the lids get loose. If I'm buying disposables, I like to buy Shinhan Touch Liners. I'm going to guess that the pigment liners cap wasn't as tight as some of the other brands. I've had the Staedtler in the parent comment, but I wasn't as disappointed, probably because I figured they were used up. I recently got some technical pens - basically refillable fineliners - by Staedtler, actually - and am enjoying those though.
  - bmj 5y ago
    I recently switched to a Micron pen for my diary (i.e. bullet journal) after years of using a pencil (favorites include the Musgrave Tennessee Red and the Blackwing 602). I like the extra precision they afford, but I did need to get used to the drying time. They are widely available at most office supply stores, too, in the drafting/drawing aisle.
chrisseaton 5y ago
I find that the square end of the tip on a fineliner isn't a joy to write with.
laserlight 5y ago
I don't find them comfortable to write with because of their high friction.
Mezzie 5y ago
I don't like how fineliners flow (or rather, how they don't). If I'm using ink instead of graphite for writing, I'm doing it because I want to write quickly and fluidly.
cschneid 5y ago
I really like these exact pens as a lefty who holds the pen a little oddly. They write best straight vertical, and that happens to be how I hold the pen. It just feels so right, and it makes my handwriting look great, which it normally doesn't.
na85 5y ago
I tried one of those fineliners for a year. Turns out I can't write as fast with one of those as I can with a ballpoint/gel pen. Muji sells cheap 0.5 and 0.7mm gel pens with a really satisfying click mechanism. Good enough for me.
pjerem 5y ago
I think it’s purely a cultural thing. In France, the fountain pen is the norm at school (probably because most inks are erasable, and maybe it changed, after all, I’m getting old).
- joelthelion 5y ago
  Not anymore :)
Broken_Hippo 5y ago
I draw with fineliners, but I don't enjoy writing with them. I honestly didn't realize that folks regularly wrote with fineliners as I've only seen them with art supplies - which would explain why they aren't common writing tools. Most folks aren't seeing them with the stationary at their store. If you like fineliners, I suggest refillables. I recently recieved these as a gift and have enjoyed them. [1] [1] https://www.cultpens.com/i/q/SD03714/staedtler-mars-matic-technical-pen-set-of-4 https://www.cultpens.com/i/q/SD03714/staedtler-mars-matic-te...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
edu 5y ago
I use fineliners too, Satedler and Stabilo are my favorites. The only “drawback” if when someone borrows them and pushes hard to the paper with them, destroying the tip :’(
watwut 5y ago
You have to write very gently, else the tip gets damage and you need a new one. Most people use ballpoint pen for writing, cause you can misuse them however you like and they won't break. They are also cheap, so you don't mind loosing them. Plus, they roll faster with less friction.

KerryJones 5y ago

A housemate recently suggested a similar pen: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006IFJN/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006IFJN/ They replaced all my other favorite pens, my handwriting looks good, so little effort, it's a miracle

yowzadave 5y ago
I used to work as an architect, and these are the most common pens people used for sketching on trace paper. Nice and cheap, I love that they sell them by the box.

oldsecondhand 5y ago

A lot of fineliners have bad ergonomy. I also don't like that they feel cheap and disposable. I ocassionally use Marvy fineliners for writing, and the friction of the head sime low enough with 0.5mm+ nibs, and they seem to last quite long, but the above drawbacks still apply.

itcrowd 5y ago

I like them too, but I will say that: a) on very smooth paper, it will smear. Needs time to dry b) on rougher paper, I found it to "spread out" like a small inkblot. As if the paper "sucks" the ink in a bit. Perfectly fine for regular paper

scotu 5y ago
in the fountain pen world we call the "spread out" effect "feathering" I always thought it was a cool name :)
- pjerem 5y ago
  In France we call the fountain pen Stylo Plume. Which literally stands for Feather Pen. And the part from which the ink flow is called the plume (feather).
  - kergonath 5y ago
    In this context, “plume” would probably be translated to “quill” rather than “feather” (or “nib”, for the metal bit that touches the paper). It’s ambiguous in French, because if is the same word for the bird thing and the writing instrument.
    - edu 5y ago
      Same in Spanish with “pluma” for the writing tool and the bird-thing.

tablespoon 5y ago

Don't the nubs on those wear down or the pens dry out? Those Staedtler ones may be better quality, but I recall using fineliner-type pens occasionally when I was a kid, and didn't really like them. > You get consistent line thickness. Isn't that also true of various kinds of rollerball pens/gel pens? > You don't need to push the tip into the paper, just letting it hover on top. There is barely any friction/resistance. That seems like it'd feel unnatural.

DizzyDoo 5y ago
I've had those Staedtler 'pigment liner' pens that are in the parent comment's link, deeply disappointing. They dried out very quickly, and I do really try to take care of my pens. My go-to fine-liners, as someone who sketches/inks, are the Sakura Pigma Micron pens. They used to be much harder to find but nowadays I see them all over, in most art supply shops, they're pretty popular.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > are the Sakura Pigma Micron pens Plus they're pigment based, so the ink is durable and long lasting. I actually have a few for some that I'd like to last a long time. However, I'm not a huge fan of how they fell. It's like writing with a marker. I understand gel ink pens are pigment based too, but archival stability doesn't seem to be as much of a selling point for them, so I don't know if they're as suitable/stable. I tend to use them for day to day stuff.
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  I draw, and my main complaint about Sakura micron: the lids get loose. If I'm buying disposables, I like to buy Shinhan Touch Liners. I'm going to guess that the pigment liners cap wasn't as tight as some of the other brands. I've had the Staedtler in the parent comment, but I wasn't as disappointed, probably because I figured they were used up. I recently got some technical pens - basically refillable fineliners - by Staedtler, actually - and am enjoying those though.
- bmj 5y ago
  I recently switched to a Micron pen for my diary (i.e. bullet journal) after years of using a pencil (favorites include the Musgrave Tennessee Red and the Blackwing 602). I like the extra precision they afford, but I did need to get used to the drying time. They are widely available at most office supply stores, too, in the drafting/drawing aisle.

chrisseaton 5y ago

I find that the square end of the tip on a fineliner isn't a joy to write with.

laserlight 5y ago

I don't find them comfortable to write with because of their high friction.

Mezzie 5y ago

I don't like how fineliners flow (or rather, how they don't). If I'm using ink instead of graphite for writing, I'm doing it because I want to write quickly and fluidly.

cschneid 5y ago

I really like these exact pens as a lefty who holds the pen a little oddly. They write best straight vertical, and that happens to be how I hold the pen. It just feels so right, and it makes my handwriting look great, which it normally doesn't.

na85 5y ago

I tried one of those fineliners for a year. Turns out I can't write as fast with one of those as I can with a ballpoint/gel pen. Muji sells cheap 0.5 and 0.7mm gel pens with a really satisfying click mechanism. Good enough for me.

pjerem 5y ago

I think it’s purely a cultural thing. In France, the fountain pen is the norm at school (probably because most inks are erasable, and maybe it changed, after all, I’m getting old).

joelthelion 5y ago
Not anymore :)

Broken_Hippo 5y ago

I draw with fineliners, but I don't enjoy writing with them. I honestly didn't realize that folks regularly wrote with fineliners as I've only seen them with art supplies - which would explain why they aren't common writing tools. Most folks aren't seeing them with the stationary at their store. If you like fineliners, I suggest refillables. I recently recieved these as a gift and have enjoyed them. [1] [1] https://www.cultpens.com/i/q/SD03714/staedtler-mars-matic-technical-pen-set-of-4 https://www.cultpens.com/i/q/SD03714/staedtler-mars-matic-te...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

edu 5y ago

I use fineliners too, Satedler and Stabilo are my favorites. The only “drawback” if when someone borrows them and pushes hard to the paper with them, destroying the tip :’(

watwut 5y ago

You have to write very gently, else the tip gets damage and you need a new one. Most people use ballpoint pen for writing, cause you can misuse them however you like and they won't break. They are also cheap, so you don't mind loosing them. Plus, they roll faster with less friction.