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Maybe if they didn't have a "pay by app" scheme as seen in one of the pictures, people would be less likely to fall into this scheme. I'm not sure why governmen

Maybe if they didn't have a "pay by app" scheme as seen in one of the pictures, people would be less likely to fall into this scheme. I'm not sure why government agencies should require people to download an app just to pay a parking fee instead of making things as frictionless as possible (I live in Australia, we have the same issue here)

csydas 5y ago
I think they just did the system backwards; the meter/parking placard should just have an etched and URL + branding for the app and the posts at parking spots should just be some UID for parking spots the system has registered. The main app/site should let you scan and auto-fill the data, but it'll wait for you to confirm you got it right. Scammers can still put fake stickers/posters/whatever up, but the QR scanner shouldn't trigger an action, it should just provide some static location data when it comes to some payment action. I think it's just a really poorly thought out system that didn't really research how other successful implementations of QR codes work.
- jjnoakes 5y ago
  Maybe I'm dense but couldn't an attacker just put a qr code sticker over every space that all pointed to their own space? Then everyone would be paying for the attacker's parking. I suppose this is harder to pull off with a lower benefit, and a higher chance of getting caught (i.e. fast acting law enforcement would know which car was in the free space). To mitigate this, you might need space numbers posted. This is easy to verify that each space is different. But at this point, why even have a QR code?
- mastazi 5y ago
  > should just have an etched and URL + branding for the app It should not be an app. Or there could be an app in addition to other methods of paying. Edit: the reason is accessibility and the fact that they are providing a public service https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29818536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29818536
Ekaros 5y ago
In Finland from my experience the app is most frictionless way. And one of the few apps I actually like to use. I have two downloaded on my phone, I enable location. Wait for it to get general area, it has my credit card and plate number store. I set time and start it. Then when I get back to car I can just stop there and get billed exact time. No dealing with coins or paying at meter or guessing how long will I take.
brewdad 5y ago
Once you've used the app once, payment becomes quite frictionless with an app. Without the app, I need to locate the pay station. Wait for anyone ahead of me already at the pay station. Then determine if it's the old type that issues a paper window ticket or the newer type that uses your license plate. If it's the new type, I have to enter my license plate info, taking care to remember not to transpose the two digits that always trip me up. If it's the old type, I have to wait for the ticket to print then return to my vehicle and place it in the proper spot in my door window sill taking care not to let it fall out when I close the door. Then I have to remember what time I need to move my car or add more time and return to the pay station to do so. With the app, I have to do all of that once and the app remembers everything for me. If I am driving my wife's car, I don't have to try to remember her plate number. I can pay for my parking while walking to wherever I am going and I'll get a notification 5 minutes before my payment expires and can add time right where I stand at that moment. Parking apps can be great though it is annoying that every town seems to have their own app or payment provider.
- themaninthedark 5y ago
  LPT: take a picture of both your and your wife's license plate.
- mastazi 5y ago
  The problem is installing the app, that's the part I don't want. All you said applies to the case in which the app is installed. Edit: just to elaborate a bit further in case it's not clear: should people who don't have a smartphone, or their smartphone is broken, or maybe they forgot the charger home, still be allowed to park their vehicle in a public area? Isn't there a higher standard in terms of accessibility requirements, when you are providing a public service?
  - c22 5y ago
    I got banned from my local parking app for "violating the terms and conditions". Though to my knowledge I used the app as a normal user would and to this day I'm mystified about what event caused the ban. Thankfully there are still kiosks that accept physical credit cards so I am able to legally park my car. It's a lucky thing I have a credit card that hasn't been banned because there no longer seems to be any way to pay with quarters.
reaperducer 5y ago
I'm not sure why government agencies should require people to download an app just to pay a parking fee instead of making things as frictionless as possible (I live in Australia, we have the same issue here) In some cities the parking meters are run by a private company. Chicago, for example, leased its parking meters to an Australian company. (Or Spanish. I forget, one got the parking meters the other got the Skyway) In exchange for an up-front payment to the city, the private company gets to run the parking meters almost any way they want. This includes raising prices. Or worse, in the Chicago example, the parking meter company successfully sued the city and now Chicago isn't allowed to permit the construction of any new public parking garages in the downtown core, because that would hurt the parking meter business. The only new garages that are permitted are for new residential buildings and a calculated number of spaces exclusively for office buildings for hotels.
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  Abu Dhabi owns the parking rights in Chicago. Personally I think having a private company control parking rates/enforcement makes sense because parking costs should be much higher than they currently are but that's not politically viable. By pawning the bad press onto some company politicians can avoid the downsides while pricing parking properly. Unfortunately Chicago is full of corrupt politicians who negotiated an unbelievably bad deal for the city, agreed that the biggest problem is that the city can never get rid of street parking or add garages.
  - cozzyd 5y ago
    Yeah, ideally the city would have kept controlling parking but charge equivalent (or higher!) rates, but then the next election that would all disappear...
- floatrock 5y ago
  Great news honestly. A parking garage costs something like $20k/space / $10M/garage. If city's hands are tied for more car-centric infrastructure, now they can spend that budget on bike lanes, citibikes, and other transit projects.
userbinator 5y ago
If I can't pay for parking with cash, I'm not parking there. In fact, it just encourages me to find a different place where the parking is actually still free.
dahfizz 5y ago
What drives me insane is that every new city I go to seems to use a different app.

csydas 5y ago

I think they just did the system backwards; the meter/parking placard should just have an etched and URL + branding for the app and the posts at parking spots should just be some UID for parking spots the system has registered. The main app/site should let you scan and auto-fill the data, but it'll wait for you to confirm you got it right. Scammers can still put fake stickers/posters/whatever up, but the QR scanner shouldn't trigger an action, it should just provide some static location data when it comes to some payment action. I think it's just a really poorly thought out system that didn't really research how other successful implementations of QR codes work.

jjnoakes 5y ago
Maybe I'm dense but couldn't an attacker just put a qr code sticker over every space that all pointed to their own space? Then everyone would be paying for the attacker's parking. I suppose this is harder to pull off with a lower benefit, and a higher chance of getting caught (i.e. fast acting law enforcement would know which car was in the free space). To mitigate this, you might need space numbers posted. This is easy to verify that each space is different. But at this point, why even have a QR code?
mastazi 5y ago
> should just have an etched and URL + branding for the app It should not be an app. Or there could be an app in addition to other methods of paying. Edit: the reason is accessibility and the fact that they are providing a public service https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29818536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29818536

Ekaros 5y ago

In Finland from my experience the app is most frictionless way. And one of the few apps I actually like to use. I have two downloaded on my phone, I enable location. Wait for it to get general area, it has my credit card and plate number store. I set time and start it. Then when I get back to car I can just stop there and get billed exact time. No dealing with coins or paying at meter or guessing how long will I take.

brewdad 5y ago

Once you've used the app once, payment becomes quite frictionless with an app. Without the app, I need to locate the pay station. Wait for anyone ahead of me already at the pay station. Then determine if it's the old type that issues a paper window ticket or the newer type that uses your license plate. If it's the new type, I have to enter my license plate info, taking care to remember not to transpose the two digits that always trip me up. If it's the old type, I have to wait for the ticket to print then return to my vehicle and place it in the proper spot in my door window sill taking care not to let it fall out when I close the door. Then I have to remember what time I need to move my car or add more time and return to the pay station to do so. With the app, I have to do all of that once and the app remembers everything for me. If I am driving my wife's car, I don't have to try to remember her plate number. I can pay for my parking while walking to wherever I am going and I'll get a notification 5 minutes before my payment expires and can add time right where I stand at that moment. Parking apps can be great though it is annoying that every town seems to have their own app or payment provider.

themaninthedark 5y ago
LPT: take a picture of both your and your wife's license plate.
mastazi 5y ago
The problem is installing the app, that's the part I don't want. All you said applies to the case in which the app is installed. Edit: just to elaborate a bit further in case it's not clear: should people who don't have a smartphone, or their smartphone is broken, or maybe they forgot the charger home, still be allowed to park their vehicle in a public area? Isn't there a higher standard in terms of accessibility requirements, when you are providing a public service?
- c22 5y ago
  I got banned from my local parking app for "violating the terms and conditions". Though to my knowledge I used the app as a normal user would and to this day I'm mystified about what event caused the ban. Thankfully there are still kiosks that accept physical credit cards so I am able to legally park my car. It's a lucky thing I have a credit card that hasn't been banned because there no longer seems to be any way to pay with quarters.

reaperducer 5y ago

I'm not sure why government agencies should require people to download an app just to pay a parking fee instead of making things as frictionless as possible (I live in Australia, we have the same issue here) In some cities the parking meters are run by a private company. Chicago, for example, leased its parking meters to an Australian company. (Or Spanish. I forget, one got the parking meters the other got the Skyway) In exchange for an up-front payment to the city, the private company gets to run the parking meters almost any way they want. This includes raising prices. Or worse, in the Chicago example, the parking meter company successfully sued the city and now Chicago isn't allowed to permit the construction of any new public parking garages in the downtown core, because that would hurt the parking meter business. The only new garages that are permitted are for new residential buildings and a calculated number of spaces exclusively for office buildings for hotels.

colinmhayes 5y ago
Abu Dhabi owns the parking rights in Chicago. Personally I think having a private company control parking rates/enforcement makes sense because parking costs should be much higher than they currently are but that's not politically viable. By pawning the bad press onto some company politicians can avoid the downsides while pricing parking properly. Unfortunately Chicago is full of corrupt politicians who negotiated an unbelievably bad deal for the city, agreed that the biggest problem is that the city can never get rid of street parking or add garages.
- cozzyd 5y ago
  Yeah, ideally the city would have kept controlling parking but charge equivalent (or higher!) rates, but then the next election that would all disappear...
floatrock 5y ago
Great news honestly. A parking garage costs something like $20k/space / $10M/garage. If city's hands are tied for more car-centric infrastructure, now they can spend that budget on bike lanes, citibikes, and other transit projects.

userbinator 5y ago

If I can't pay for parking with cash, I'm not parking there. In fact, it just encourages me to find a different place where the parking is actually still free.

dahfizz 5y ago

What drives me insane is that every new city I go to seems to use a different app.