12 ms·

Ex-Amazonian here, I agree with almost everything OP say. I have a few things to add in case HR is reading this: - RSUs vesting schedule sucks, fix it.(5% - fi

• commandlinefan 5y ago
  > in case HR is reading this If they cared, they would have done something about this long ago.
• chrsig 5y ago
  > - Amazon has the least amount of holidays of all FAANG, why? probably too focused on frugality to consider retention
  • klodolph 5y ago
    They do consider retention, make no mistake.
    • oblio 5y ago
      Could you expand on this, please?
      • chrsig 5y ago
        I believe the commenter was implying that their policy takes retention into account, and amazon simply doesn't value retaining employees
        • tablespoon 5y ago
          > I believe the commenter was implying that their policy takes retention into account, and amazon simply doesn't value retaining employees I think there's some Bezos quote about people being lazy and it being easier to extract labor from fresh hires trying to prove themselves.
          • MattGaiser 5y ago
            > Bezos believed that workers' desire to perform well decreased over time and that an entrenched workforce was a "march to mediocrity," Niekerk told The Times. https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-polices-based-jeff-bezos-belief-all-workers-are-lazy-2021-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-polices-based-jeff-be...
            • oblio 5y ago
              That's a solid degree of irony from someone that worked in the same place for 27 years :-D
        • klodolph 5y ago
          Yes, they are well-known for having attrition targets.
    • BoiledCabbage 5y ago
      > They do consider retention, make no mistake. As in they consider retention unimportant, and something to not prioritize? Because it sure seems that way.
    • dpark 5y ago
      I’m sure they do. They just also don’t care until it becomes a critical issue. I am contacted by an Amazon recruiter at least once a week. I’m sure every engineer I know is. I wonder how much of their money they blow on recruiting and how much engineering time is spent in interviews replacing all the burned out engineers. Plus all the talent that won’t even entertain a job at Amazon.
      • yelling_cat 5y ago
        Lately I've seen less recruiter pitches from Amazon and more personalized messages from managers there about specific roles on their teams, which is a new wrinkle. I doubt that those people would add hours of recruiting to their weekly workload unless the standard candidate pipeline was really running dry.
        • waoush 5y ago
          I got a message on LinkedIn from a software developer manager there less than a month ago. Was quite shocked and didn't think such a thing was even possible. Also got a staff software engineer from Facebook who added me on there, and had in their title "hiring". lol.
      • anonporridge 5y ago
        Not caring until something becomes a critical issue is very deeply ingrained in Amazon's culture.
  • MattGaiser 5y ago
    Amazon has to be at the point of literally running out of nearby human beings to be concerned about retention. https://www.essence.com/news/amazon-burning-through-workers/ https://www.essence.com/news/amazon-burning-through-workers/
    • tablespoon 5y ago
      > Amazon has to be at the point of literally running out of nearby human beings to be concerned about retention. It seems like they're more than willing to hire imports. I get more recruiter spam from them than anyone else, and I don't live anywhere near any of their major offices.
      • MattGaiser 5y ago
        This is true as well. I got an email offering me immigration support to move to Vancouver. I already live in Canada, have my entire life, and every job has also been in Canada.
        • Izikiel43 5y ago
          You are assuming recruiters can read
      • bluedino 5y ago
        They have lots of remote jobs now as well.
      • deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    • cwkoss 5y ago
      I read a stat that 1 out of ~154 Americans currently works for amazon.
      • cipheredStones 5y ago
        American workers, not Americans overall - it's still astonishing, but they have a bit less than a million US employees rather than 330M/154 = 2.1M employees.
• dpark 5y ago
  > RSUs vesting schedule sucks, fix it.(5% - first year, 15% - second , then 5% each quarter, i think...) They don’t want to fix that. I’m sure they save a ton of money by backloading vesting like that. With their turnover rate, they probably pay out a pretty small portion of their awarded grants. As I understand it (having never worked there), they are also stingy with granting new stock, and consider unvested grants in determining what to award each year. e.g. “You had an amazing year, but you’re sitting on a bunch of stock already, so take this tiny new grant and fuck off.” I’ve heard this from multiple former employees so have no particular reason to doubt it.
  • User23 5y ago
    > You had an amazing year, but you’re sitting on a bunch of stock already, so take this tiny new grant and fuck off That's true, but it can go the other way too. One person I know got a needs improvement rating and no stock at all, but turned around and did rockstar work the next year. Because AMZN happened to have crashed about 50% in that time, getting the person back to target total compensation for the exceeds rating required granting considerably more RSUs than they would have received had they also gotten an exceeds in the prior year.
    • dpark 5y ago
      I think treating vesting as the time of compensation is a poor model. The compensation was when the stock was granted. Otherwise why grant vesting stock at all?
• stuaxo 5y ago
  - Amazon has the least amount of holidays of all FAANG, why? I find the attitude in a company starts from the top - so I'd Blame Bezos for the culture that does this, look at how they treat their non software dev workers.
• vishnugupta 5y ago
  > (5% - first year, 15% - second This is done on purpose because a vast majority of employees leave Amazon within 18 months or so. And those who can withstand that environment for 24 months and beyond develop thick enough skin and make enough internal connections to survive till 5+ years. (bit of a tangent) > in case HR is reading this HR's primary (perhaps only) job is to protect the upper management (execs and above) from the nuisance caused by workers down below. It took me a while to sink in but when it did it brought in lot of clarity to the way I deal with HR. IMO this could be generalised to a reasonable degree. For instance, police force's primary job is to protect the government from the internal threat which is the population at large. Catching thieves happens to be a small by-product of it. Employees' allegiance is, first and foremost, to their pay master.
  • samspenc 5y ago
    I heard that their (miserly) first and second year RSU vests are made up for with a cash component during those two years, or am I mistaken about that?
    • oblio 5y ago
      Yes, you get money. There's some strings attached, you have to return the money under certain conditions.
    • hemloc_io 5y ago
      Haha what they probably don’t mention is second year bonus is prorated. So it’s a double fuck you, bc it gets paid out as quickly as salary but is in permanent to your TC as a bonus lol
  • amackera 5y ago
    HR's job is to protect the company from the employees (that includes execs).
• tinyhouse 5y ago
  | - Make it easier to switch teams It's actually much easier to switch teams at Amazon than most of tech.
  • TideAd 5y ago
    Do you still have to go through a full interview loop?
    • masterof0 5y ago
      You do, and if for any reason the next manager doesn't want you or change his/her/x mind, you are in a really awkward situation with your team.
      • ozzythecat 5y ago
        This is not true, not in AWS nor in CDO. The hiring manager might connect you with an engineer on their team to see if you’re a fit, but it’s not an actual interview loop. You’re certainly not coding. Source: Been at Amazon for a many, many years across retail and AWS teams. This was never true, and if you saw this really happen, it’s a 1% minority.
        • masterof0 5y ago
          That was not my experience, and certainly not the experience of my coworkers that have been at Amazon "many, many years". If you are cozy with the people of the team you hope to get into, then is easy, otherwise, you get your CRs reviewed, asked for design docs, and need to talk with several people on the team. If you worked on a small project for a year, or were hired to maintain something that was already there, you don't get to have design docs, nor impact opportunities (even if you asked your manager for it during 1on1s). Also the next manager can make you apply (your current manager gets notified) and then rejects you, just because, and you will be in a delicate situation.
          • ozzythecat 5y ago
• andrewguenther 5y ago
  > Internal tooling is pretty bad (frameworks, pipelines, ....) and the documentation is non-existent, and when it exists , is not very helpful. Surprised to read this. The tooling is what I miss most from Amazon, but I was in AWS the whole time, I've heard the retail situation is quite different.
  • masterof0 5y ago
    in AWS is ok, in CDO is awful.
    • emptysea 5y ago
      What does CDO mean in the context of Amazon?
      • vamega 5y ago
        Consumer Digital and Other. Its a business hierarchy. Pretty sure it’s effectively not-AWS
        • masterof0 5y ago
          you are right.
• time_to_smile 5y ago
  > RSUs vesting schedule sucks This is a crucial part of PIP culture. It took me awhile too realize how common a pattern it is for companies to offer promising RSUs as part of total comp and then drive employees out after 10 months. That vesting schedule is just some slight of hand so that you think Amazon is paying you XX% more than they have ever planned on. In reality you're getting paid likely less than you would sticking at a smaller, saner company. If you knew that upfront you'd never join. To be clear, not all companies that offer RSUs are like this (of course most of them have better vesting), but this is a pattern I've seen a bit too often.
• libria 5y ago
  > 5% - first year, 15% - second , then 5% each quarter, i think... It's 5%, 15%, 40%, 40%. In lieu of RSU's in Year 1, you get a big signing bonus. Year 2, not quite as big signing bonus (hence the +10% RSU). Year 3 and 4, nothing but RSU. It adds up to the same amount every year assuming no stock growth. Are you saying you just want double your salary for year 1 and 2 and are planning to quit before year 3 when it drops to nil? Yeah, who wouldn't? I wouldn't want to be a shareholder of any company dumb enough to offer this.
  • moneywoes 5y ago
    Doesn’t the signing bonus get revoked?