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"It blew my mind how many business critical processes were managed with excel spreadsheets being shared via email chains." - this also blows my mind, given how

"It blew my mind how many business critical processes were managed with excel spreadsheets being shared via email chains." - this also blows my mind, given how many problems there are with Excel (e.g. formatting).

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jsiaajdsdaa 5y ago
Business moves at the speed of now.
- jjoonathan 5y ago
  This sounds like a '90s marketing meme -- do I have that right? I didn't enter the industry until after.
  - hhpindia 5y ago
  - jsiaajdsdaa 5y ago
    It probably is but I mean that excel and email solve problems right now, despite having flaws
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    It sounded like I had heard that in a commercial when I was a kid, but all I could find was “move at the speed of business”. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ijaz9OaCo7Y https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ijaz9OaCo7Y
lloydatkinson 5y ago
And also considering how much in house software development there is...
- laluser 5y ago
  Yes, but you can't realistically create a web app for every spreadsheet that is out there. Only when it would truly add value to the team over the long-term, does it make sense. In my experience, this is done when the spreadsheet stops scaling to the number of people that need access to the data or systems that need said data.
tyingq 5y ago
Interesting, since they have Honeycode..."Looks like a spreadsheet, works like a database"
Waterluvian 5y ago
Formatting is a very very distant minor gripe compared to what I think is the main reason this is a problem: versioning. That being said, if it works, it works. If it doesn't work, make a case for why and develop a _holistic_ understanding of the costs and benefits of changing the current process. Maybe you can change it, or maybe you learn why it doesn't change. If it works, but it offends your sensibilities, perhaps this is an opportunity for self-growth.
- onphonenow 5y ago
  Just a note that many folks on platforms like dropbox / S3 etc turn on versioning of excel sheets if they are in paid status for this exact reason. It's not perfect, but it get's you a lot very very easily. Version - date changed - who edited. Add in the universal flexibility (both function and who can use it). You can hand an excel file off to admin temp staff all the way to the top 3 folks in the org in one file and they can all interact with it successfully in most cases. This makes this very powerful.
  - Waterluvian 5y ago
    Yeah. It's like git is baked into the file. I don't work with spreadsheets much but I completely understand why they're loved so much. They're data, code, presentation, versioning, etc. all in one file that has _very_ good support. Excel is for the people who want to actually get stuff done and find all tooling a distraction from what actually adds value to the company.
  - stainforth 5y ago
    What does "are in paid status" mean?
    - onphonenow 5y ago
      Paid plans either enable or give you longer version history 6 months minimum, some businesses bump that up to 1-2 years (it goes to 10 years with dropbox). Same with google. Paid plans you can make sure a copy of all sent messages is kept, set retention rules etc. So if folks use email for all their approval / business flows that can be helpful (ie, some orgs CEO might send an email say I approve - go ahead and sign it on big deals rather than shuffling paper or doing a proper e-signature. If so, you might want to keep an archive org level of your email flows
_jal 5y ago
This is everywhere, and there is no escape. I do occasionally blow things in to Postgres for my own sanity, but it usually isn't worth it, and even when it is, data goes back out to other people in CSV. As just one example, if your secops department uses Qualys (and they probably do), that forces your secops department to use it, which means everyone who has to interact with them does. Everything about internal budgeting is a pile of spreadsheets that gets thrown around. Hell, when I moved one of our data centers recently, that process with the new DC was all all Excel sheets, despite the fact that we have DCIMs on both ends. There is just no escape.
timdellinger 5y ago
The alternative is to have these business processes managed using internally developed software that may or may not be supported as time passes... excel via email might (unfortunately) very well be the more robust and reliable way to go here
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  And with shared updatable spreadsheets (i.e. Google Sheets or Office 360) it's even better. SMEs are going to be way more likely to throw together a spreadsheet to accomplish some immediate goal than they are to sit down with an internal software project manager and spend hours educating them on the problem to be solved and writing "user stories"

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jsiaajdsdaa 5y ago

Business moves at the speed of now.

jjoonathan 5y ago
This sounds like a '90s marketing meme -- do I have that right? I didn't enter the industry until after.
- hhpindia 5y ago
- jsiaajdsdaa 5y ago
  It probably is but I mean that excel and email solve problems right now, despite having flaws
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  It sounded like I had heard that in a commercial when I was a kid, but all I could find was “move at the speed of business”. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ijaz9OaCo7Y https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ijaz9OaCo7Y

lloydatkinson 5y ago

And also considering how much in house software development there is...

laluser 5y ago
Yes, but you can't realistically create a web app for every spreadsheet that is out there. Only when it would truly add value to the team over the long-term, does it make sense. In my experience, this is done when the spreadsheet stops scaling to the number of people that need access to the data or systems that need said data.

tyingq 5y ago

Interesting, since they have Honeycode..."Looks like a spreadsheet, works like a database"

Waterluvian 5y ago

Formatting is a very very distant minor gripe compared to what I think is the main reason this is a problem: versioning. That being said, if it works, it works. If it doesn't work, make a case for why and develop a _holistic_ understanding of the costs and benefits of changing the current process. Maybe you can change it, or maybe you learn why it doesn't change. If it works, but it offends your sensibilities, perhaps this is an opportunity for self-growth.

onphonenow 5y ago
Just a note that many folks on platforms like dropbox / S3 etc turn on versioning of excel sheets if they are in paid status for this exact reason. It's not perfect, but it get's you a lot very very easily. Version - date changed - who edited. Add in the universal flexibility (both function and who can use it). You can hand an excel file off to admin temp staff all the way to the top 3 folks in the org in one file and they can all interact with it successfully in most cases. This makes this very powerful.
- Waterluvian 5y ago
  Yeah. It's like git is baked into the file. I don't work with spreadsheets much but I completely understand why they're loved so much. They're data, code, presentation, versioning, etc. all in one file that has _very_ good support. Excel is for the people who want to actually get stuff done and find all tooling a distraction from what actually adds value to the company.
- stainforth 5y ago
  What does "are in paid status" mean?
  - onphonenow 5y ago
    Paid plans either enable or give you longer version history 6 months minimum, some businesses bump that up to 1-2 years (it goes to 10 years with dropbox). Same with google. Paid plans you can make sure a copy of all sent messages is kept, set retention rules etc. So if folks use email for all their approval / business flows that can be helpful (ie, some orgs CEO might send an email say I approve - go ahead and sign it on big deals rather than shuffling paper or doing a proper e-signature. If so, you might want to keep an archive org level of your email flows

_jal 5y ago

This is everywhere, and there is no escape. I do occasionally blow things in to Postgres for my own sanity, but it usually isn't worth it, and even when it is, data goes back out to other people in CSV. As just one example, if your secops department uses Qualys (and they probably do), that forces your secops department to use it, which means everyone who has to interact with them does. Everything about internal budgeting is a pile of spreadsheets that gets thrown around. Hell, when I moved one of our data centers recently, that process with the new DC was all all Excel sheets, despite the fact that we have DCIMs on both ends. There is just no escape.

timdellinger 5y ago

The alternative is to have these business processes managed using internally developed software that may or may not be supported as time passes... excel via email might (unfortunately) very well be the more robust and reliable way to go here

throwawayboise 5y ago
And with shared updatable spreadsheets (i.e. Google Sheets or Office 360) it's even better. SMEs are going to be way more likely to throw together a spreadsheet to accomplish some immediate goal than they are to sit down with an internal software project manager and spend hours educating them on the problem to be solved and writing "user stories"