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>But again, these complicated problems tend to be handled by well educated and experienced specialists. That's my point. In software engineering these speciali

>But again, these complicated problems tend to be handled by well educated and experienced specialists. That's my point. In software engineering these specialists aren't required. Like actual deep mathematical knowledge isn't needed for software engineering. >They're getting most of their information from the professional greybeards from within their industry. Of course, I never disputed this. However there is a foundational knowledge in say something like ME which is more reliant on schooling. This foundational knowledge is required to understand the greybeard. For example kinematics and calculus. Just getting up to that point requires at a minimum.. two years of training in school. Plenty of software engineers don't know calculus or trig. That much I can assure you because it's rarely required.

P_I_Staker 5y ago
I don't dispute that deep mathematical knowledge isn't needed for software. It isn't really needed in much of engineering. Plenty of high school level students can do trig and algebra. You can get by just fine in much of the engineering world, just like software, with bare minimums. Linear algebra, trig, even basic diff eq and calculus is relatively easy to pick up independently IMO. Plenty of books, exercises, videos, ect. Having taken math at multiple universities, including community colleges, I can't tell much difference between the programs. It didn't seem like anyone else felt otherwise. Going to college to learn basic math would be a waste of money, I think. > That's my point. In software engineering these specialists aren't required. That's not really true. I mentioned this in my comment. There are many areas of software and computing that DO require specialists. Elite teams or team members that tackle really really hard problems that much of the field then uses. So there's really no difference there at all. Do you work in ME? It sounds like you have a glamorized idea of what a lot of other engineers do. I can assure you that the vast majority of them are not using specialized knowledge. It doesn't really seem that different to me. I can assure 100% that it's the same in EE, because I've done that, and it was almost exactly the same. (of course, it's fair to point out the similarities between EE and CS, but again all my ME friends reported the same kind of stuff).
- deltaonefour 5y ago
  >It isn't really needed in much of engineering. Plenty of high school level students can do trig and algebra. You can get by just fine in much of the engineering world, A certain amount of People can get by, but the project itself cannot get by without a minimum people on that project knowing this stuff. For your typical software project, the entire project can get by without anyone knowing anything from algebra and beyond. >Linear algebra, trig, even basic diff eq and calculus is relatively easy to pick up independently IMO. Less likely for people learn this stuff outside of a school. It can be done without school but the likelihood of learning these things without school is low because learning these things is about 10x harder than programming. Developing the intuition and familiarity with this is very rarely done independently. Additionally, these are the bare minimum required for engineering. Complex analysis, control system theory, kinimatics, physics, circuit analysis and much much more are required for systems engineering. And almost nobody starts learning this stuff as a "hobby." Basically people pick up learning django or rails as a hobby or something along those lines. >Do you work in ME? It sounds like you have a glamorized idea of what a lot of other engineers do. I'm EE, switched to CS after graduation and I work in embedded systems with mechanical engineers and other EEs. Yes the day to day doesn't require solving an ODE. But the basic knowledge is required in some aspect of the project. The same is NOT true for software. >There are many areas of software and computing that DO require specialists. Very few. ML or Data is mostly what I see but you're average web development shop has sw guys who are roughly homogeneous in terms of skills. Any specialization is domain knowledge as in he's the guy that coded that maze so he's the guy that knows it best. There are "specialists" but the crossover is so close that all these specialties can combine and you encounter tons and tons of people who are "full stack" engineers.

P_I_Staker 5y ago

I don't dispute that deep mathematical knowledge isn't needed for software. It isn't really needed in much of engineering. Plenty of high school level students can do trig and algebra. You can get by just fine in much of the engineering world, just like software, with bare minimums. Linear algebra, trig, even basic diff eq and calculus is relatively easy to pick up independently IMO. Plenty of books, exercises, videos, ect. Having taken math at multiple universities, including community colleges, I can't tell much difference between the programs. It didn't seem like anyone else felt otherwise. Going to college to learn basic math would be a waste of money, I think. > That's my point. In software engineering these specialists aren't required. That's not really true. I mentioned this in my comment. There are many areas of software and computing that DO require specialists. Elite teams or team members that tackle really really hard problems that much of the field then uses. So there's really no difference there at all. Do you work in ME? It sounds like you have a glamorized idea of what a lot of other engineers do. I can assure you that the vast majority of them are not using specialized knowledge. It doesn't really seem that different to me. I can assure 100% that it's the same in EE, because I've done that, and it was almost exactly the same. (of course, it's fair to point out the similarities between EE and CS, but again all my ME friends reported the same kind of stuff).

deltaonefour 5y ago
>It isn't really needed in much of engineering. Plenty of high school level students can do trig and algebra. You can get by just fine in much of the engineering world, A certain amount of People can get by, but the project itself cannot get by without a minimum people on that project knowing this stuff. For your typical software project, the entire project can get by without anyone knowing anything from algebra and beyond. >Linear algebra, trig, even basic diff eq and calculus is relatively easy to pick up independently IMO. Less likely for people learn this stuff outside of a school. It can be done without school but the likelihood of learning these things without school is low because learning these things is about 10x harder than programming. Developing the intuition and familiarity with this is very rarely done independently. Additionally, these are the bare minimum required for engineering. Complex analysis, control system theory, kinimatics, physics, circuit analysis and much much more are required for systems engineering. And almost nobody starts learning this stuff as a "hobby." Basically people pick up learning django or rails as a hobby or something along those lines. >Do you work in ME? It sounds like you have a glamorized idea of what a lot of other engineers do. I'm EE, switched to CS after graduation and I work in embedded systems with mechanical engineers and other EEs. Yes the day to day doesn't require solving an ODE. But the basic knowledge is required in some aspect of the project. The same is NOT true for software. >There are many areas of software and computing that DO require specialists. Very few. ML or Data is mostly what I see but you're average web development shop has sw guys who are roughly homogeneous in terms of skills. Any specialization is domain knowledge as in he's the guy that coded that maze so he's the guy that knows it best. There are "specialists" but the crossover is so close that all these specialties can combine and you encounter tons and tons of people who are "full stack" engineers.