4 ms·

Very easily - for example it can just dump any sequences in memory that look like encryption keys and send them to the mothership. This can be initiated throug

Very easily - for example it can just dump any sequences in memory that look like encryption keys and send them to the mothership. This can be initiated through the actual "owners" of this chip or the next malware authors that exploit this undocumented black box that received zero scrutiny by the public security community.

kllrnohj 5y ago
That's not "very easily" - how is it sending them to the mothership? It needs a network connection, and unless it has a wifi stack & WPA keys to connect to things, that's not very likely for it to have. The typical backdoor concern for things like Intel's management engine is via ethernet, which it definitely does have access to and is a lot easier for it to stand up & make a connection. But wifi requires credentials or some way for this security chip to inject additional packets. The former isn't really plausible without OS participation, and the latter would be very detectible if it happened. The owners of the chip can't exactly magic commands directly to the chip, after all. And communication with the outside world is trivially detected unless they go through the extreme cost of giving it its own cell modem or similar.
- npteljes 5y ago
  What you refer to "former", completely bypasses the OS, by having direct access to the ethernet controller. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine The WiFi could connect to a neighboring device supporting this function. Amazon developed Sidewalk[0] for example. Or my country has an ISP that lets you connect from any of the subscriber's wifi, as long as you pass your credentials. The subscribers can turn this off, but it's opt-out. So this is two, actual, already deployed mechanism that solves the "how it's sending to the mothership" problem. And I expect more to come - looking at 5G for example. [0] https://www.theregister.com/2020/11/24/amazon_sidewalk_opt_out/ https://www.theregister.com/2020/11/24/amazon_sidewalk_opt_o...

kllrnohj 5y ago

That's not "very easily" - how is it sending them to the mothership? It needs a network connection, and unless it has a wifi stack & WPA keys to connect to things, that's not very likely for it to have. The typical backdoor concern for things like Intel's management engine is via ethernet, which it definitely does have access to and is a lot easier for it to stand up & make a connection. But wifi requires credentials or some way for this security chip to inject additional packets. The former isn't really plausible without OS participation, and the latter would be very detectible if it happened. The owners of the chip can't exactly magic commands directly to the chip, after all. And communication with the outside world is trivially detected unless they go through the extreme cost of giving it its own cell modem or similar.

npteljes 5y ago
What you refer to "former", completely bypasses the OS, by having direct access to the ethernet controller. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine The WiFi could connect to a neighboring device supporting this function. Amazon developed Sidewalk[0] for example. Or my country has an ISP that lets you connect from any of the subscriber's wifi, as long as you pass your credentials. The subscribers can turn this off, but it's opt-out. So this is two, actual, already deployed mechanism that solves the "how it's sending to the mothership" problem. And I expect more to come - looking at 5G for example. [0] https://www.theregister.com/2020/11/24/amazon_sidewalk_opt_out/ https://www.theregister.com/2020/11/24/amazon_sidewalk_opt_o...