7 ms·

I'd say that iTunes killed itself in the debugger because the music industry didn't want you to see what their DRM does. :/

jrockway 15y ago
No, it's an OS X "feature". PT_DENY_ATTACH: http://landonf.bikemonkey.org/code/macosx/Leopard_PT_DENY_ATTACH.20080122.html http://landonf.bikemonkey.org/code/macosx/Leopard_PT_DENY_AT... "UNIX with a GUI" at its best.
- antihero 15y ago
  That is utterly fucked up. How dare they say you can't look at the code that is running on the hardware you purchased.
  - rbanffy 15y ago
    You know... You may have a point. Some people may have been spoiled by operating systems like Linux or BSD, where you can look up each and every line of code that comprises the whole software stack, but, in fact, most people don't really care about that. Still, OSX is more open than its main competitor - you can see most of it, but not all. The fact most people don't really care about what they are using is sad, but it's a fact of life.
    - sjwright 15y ago
      Most people drive their car without knowing how an internal combustion engine works. Most people watch television without knowing that the picture is comprised of pixels (or scan lines). Is that also sad? Must everyone understand everything they use in sufficient detail? Why should a computer be different? Why should my mum need to understand what an operating system is, let alone care about it?
      - jarek 15y ago
        Most engines don't cut out if you do choose to pop the hood open.
        slowpoke 15y ago
        I have no idea why you are being downvoted, because it's the truth. It's exactly what Apple does. While yes, no one should need to understand how a TV/Car/Computer/<insert everyday technology> works under the hood, how is that an argument to stop people who WANT to know?
        eropple 15y ago
        You're free to learn. Just not with their software. You know that going in, it's not a secret if you've done your due diligence regarding these things about which you purportedly care. Personally, I grew out of computers-as-ideology a long time ago. I'll trade the ability to run GDB on my media player the zero times I'll ever want to do it for a fantastic user experience for the other 100% of the time I'm using my computer. (Okay, 90% or so, but for that 10%, I have Windows.)
        deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
        jarek 15y ago
        While I see your point, the frustrating thing is that blocking itunes from gdb in no way helps them deliver a fantastic user experience.
        eropple 15y ago
        Sure, but you know going in (again, if you've done your research) that they do it. So if it's important to you, don't buy it. I don't care about that, so I will.
        slowpoke 15y ago
    - slowpoke 15y ago
      > Some people may have been spoiled by operating systems like Linux or BSD, where you can look up each and every line of code that comprises the whole software stack I'm quite sorry, but what? Spoiled by having the freedom we should have for every technology? It's kind of like saying that "Some people are spoiled by having civil liberties, but most people don't care about those".
      - rbanffy 15y ago
        > It's kind of like saying that That was the point ;-)
        slowpoke 15y ago
        I might have misunderstood you then. :)
  - ootachi 15y ago
    It doesn't end there; look up encrypted binaries and Dont Steal Mac OS X.kext for more fun examples of DRM built into the kernel.
  - salgernon 15y ago
    gdb /Applications/iTunes.app/Contents/MacOS/iTunes (gdb) fb ptrace (gdb) run [ breaks at ptrace ] (gdb) return [ type 'y' to return to the parent, skipping the call ] pirate your music or whatever you wanted to do. I'm not sure who this was supposed to prevent from doing what, although I'm sure that it wouldn't be in there if there wasn't a contractual obligation to do something for the people providing them with content.
    - jrockway 15y ago
      If you skip the ptrace call, you can't "pirate your music or whatever you wanted to do". The whole point of running GDB is to call ptrace.
      - Xuzz 15y ago
        You're not skipping gdb's ptrace, you're skipping when iTunes calls it. iTunes calls ptrace() with PT_DENY_ATTACH to disallow gdb from attaching to it, which this method easily skips to let you attach to iTunes without any issues.
- Synaesthesia 15y ago
  A feature introduced specifically to safeguard iTunes DRM I'd bet.
  - rbanffy 15y ago
    It's absent from the Solaris-based OSs, where dtrace came from, IIRC.
  - yuhong 15y ago
    The funny thing is that it can be easily patched out by modifying the XNU source code, which made me wonder about open source politics inside Apple.

jrockway 15y ago

No, it's an OS X "feature". PT_DENY_ATTACH: http://landonf.bikemonkey.org/code/macosx/Leopard_PT_DENY_ATTACH.20080122.html http://landonf.bikemonkey.org/code/macosx/Leopard_PT_DENY_AT... "UNIX with a GUI" at its best.

antihero 15y ago
That is utterly fucked up. How dare they say you can't look at the code that is running on the hardware you purchased.
- rbanffy 15y ago
  You know... You may have a point. Some people may have been spoiled by operating systems like Linux or BSD, where you can look up each and every line of code that comprises the whole software stack, but, in fact, most people don't really care about that. Still, OSX is more open than its main competitor - you can see most of it, but not all. The fact most people don't really care about what they are using is sad, but it's a fact of life.
  - sjwright 15y ago
    Most people drive their car without knowing how an internal combustion engine works. Most people watch television without knowing that the picture is comprised of pixels (or scan lines). Is that also sad? Must everyone understand everything they use in sufficient detail? Why should a computer be different? Why should my mum need to understand what an operating system is, let alone care about it?
    - jarek 15y ago
      Most engines don't cut out if you do choose to pop the hood open.
      - slowpoke 15y ago
        I have no idea why you are being downvoted, because it's the truth. It's exactly what Apple does. While yes, no one should need to understand how a TV/Car/Computer/<insert everyday technology> works under the hood, how is that an argument to stop people who WANT to know?
        eropple 15y ago
        You're free to learn. Just not with their software. You know that going in, it's not a secret if you've done your due diligence regarding these things about which you purportedly care. Personally, I grew out of computers-as-ideology a long time ago. I'll trade the ability to run GDB on my media player the zero times I'll ever want to do it for a fantastic user experience for the other 100% of the time I'm using my computer. (Okay, 90% or so, but for that 10%, I have Windows.)
        deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
        jarek 15y ago
        While I see your point, the frustrating thing is that blocking itunes from gdb in no way helps them deliver a fantastic user experience.
        eropple 15y ago
        Sure, but you know going in (again, if you've done your research) that they do it. So if it's important to you, don't buy it. I don't care about that, so I will.
        slowpoke 15y ago
  - slowpoke 15y ago
    > Some people may have been spoiled by operating systems like Linux or BSD, where you can look up each and every line of code that comprises the whole software stack I'm quite sorry, but what? Spoiled by having the freedom we should have for every technology? It's kind of like saying that "Some people are spoiled by having civil liberties, but most people don't care about those".
    - rbanffy 15y ago
      > It's kind of like saying that That was the point ;-)
      - slowpoke 15y ago
        I might have misunderstood you then. :)
- ootachi 15y ago
  It doesn't end there; look up encrypted binaries and Dont Steal Mac OS X.kext for more fun examples of DRM built into the kernel.
- salgernon 15y ago
  gdb /Applications/iTunes.app/Contents/MacOS/iTunes (gdb) fb ptrace (gdb) run [ breaks at ptrace ] (gdb) return [ type 'y' to return to the parent, skipping the call ] pirate your music or whatever you wanted to do. I'm not sure who this was supposed to prevent from doing what, although I'm sure that it wouldn't be in there if there wasn't a contractual obligation to do something for the people providing them with content.
  - jrockway 15y ago
    If you skip the ptrace call, you can't "pirate your music or whatever you wanted to do". The whole point of running GDB is to call ptrace.
    - Xuzz 15y ago
      You're not skipping gdb's ptrace, you're skipping when iTunes calls it. iTunes calls ptrace() with PT_DENY_ATTACH to disallow gdb from attaching to it, which this method easily skips to let you attach to iTunes without any issues.
Synaesthesia 15y ago
A feature introduced specifically to safeguard iTunes DRM I'd bet.
- rbanffy 15y ago
  It's absent from the Solaris-based OSs, where dtrace came from, IIRC.
- yuhong 15y ago
  The funny thing is that it can be easily patched out by modifying the XNU source code, which made me wonder about open source politics inside Apple.