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> I'm curious about this. Can you point to any specific evidence that being "backed by Google in 2005" was a momentous event for Python? Here are some stats wi

by _Mask_ 5y ago

> I'm curious about this. Can you point to any specific evidence that being "backed by Google in 2005" was a momentous event for Python? Here are some stats with the popularity of various languages over time: https://statisticsanddata.org/data/the-most-popular-programming-languages-1965-2021/ https://statisticsanddata.org/data/the-most-popular-programm... In 2005 Google hired Guido van Rossum, where he spent half of his time developing the Python language. As you can see, before 2006, Python was little less popular than Perl(9th vs 8th). By the time Guido left Google(December 2012), Python became 4th most popular programming language.

civilized 5y ago
I don't think Guido did anything special for the scientific/technical/data computing community after he came to Google. Python was on version 2.4 as of 2005, and that version would have been fine to develop against indefinitely. In fact, it's been a huge headache getting scientists to move to Python 3.
teleforce 5y ago
The sibling comment mentioned that there's probably no contribution from Guido regarding the meteoric rise of Python in data science but the truth it's really the opposite [1]. Guido was really instrumental in suitability of Python for data science [2]. To quote from the magazine article on Python for Scientists and Engineers: "During these early years, there was considerable interaction between the standard and scientific Python communities. In fact, Guido van Rossum, Python's Benevolent Dictator For Life (BDFL), was an active member of the matrix-sig. This close interaction resulted in Python gaining new features and syntax specifically needed by the scientific Python community. While there were miscellaneous changes, such as the addition of complex numbers, many changes focused on providing a more succinct and easier to read syntax for array manipulation. For instance, the parenthesis around tuples were made optional so that array elements could be accessed through, for example, a[0,1] instead of a[(0,1)]. The slice syntax gained a step argument— a[::2] instead of just a[:], for example—and an ellipsis operator, which is useful when dealing with multidimensional data structures." Personally I'd much prefer D language to replace python for data science due to its Python like programming vibes but with more powerful real-time programming constructs, and its suitability for beginners or type A data scientists [3]. Python is already showing its limitations especially for the B type of data scientists [4]. There's recent discussions on Dlang forum for the potential improvements of D for data science and there's also recommendation for Walter to join such SIG as was Guido [5]. [1]Numpy History: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NumPy#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NumPy#History There's even recomendation from Dlang forum for Walter to join such SIG [3]. [2]Python for Scientists and Engineers: https://www.computer.org/csdl/magazine/cs/2011/02/mcs2011020009/13rRUx0xPMx https://www.computer.org/csdl/magazine/cs/2011/02/mcs2011020... [3]Teaching D from Scratch: Is it a viable first language? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29711800 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29711800 [4]Type A Data Scientist vs. Type B Data Scientist: https://www.projectpro.io/article/type-a-data-scientist-vs-type-b-data-scientist/194 https://www.projectpro.io/article/type-a-data-scientist-vs-t... [5]Dlang forum: Pandas like features: https://forum.dlang.org/thread/zuebxhkycgxsoipsgnbk@forum.dlang.org https://forum.dlang.org/thread/zuebxhkycgxsoipsgnbk@forum.dl...
- civilized 5y ago
  I'm sure Guido did things for the scientific community. My claim was that he probably didn't move the needle for them after coming to Google in 2005. The other person claimed that Google magic somehow led to Python becoming dominant in the sci/numeric/data computing community, and that just strikes me as wildly implausible. Google has done negligible foundational work on scientific Python. No one in that community has ever cared what Google thinks. Anyways, I'm curious why you think D has potential as a Data Science language? Why not a more popular language like Julia or Rust?

by _Mask_ 5y ago

civilized 5y ago

I don't think Guido did anything special for the scientific/technical/data computing community after he came to Google. Python was on version 2.4 as of 2005, and that version would have been fine to develop against indefinitely. In fact, it's been a huge headache getting scientists to move to Python 3.

teleforce 5y ago

The sibling comment mentioned that there's probably no contribution from Guido regarding the meteoric rise of Python in data science but the truth it's really the opposite [1]. Guido was really instrumental in suitability of Python for data science [2]. To quote from the magazine article on Python for Scientists and Engineers: "During these early years, there was considerable interaction between the standard and scientific Python communities. In fact, Guido van Rossum, Python's Benevolent Dictator For Life (BDFL), was an active member of the matrix-sig. This close interaction resulted in Python gaining new features and syntax specifically needed by the scientific Python community. While there were miscellaneous changes, such as the addition of complex numbers, many changes focused on providing a more succinct and easier to read syntax for array manipulation. For instance, the parenthesis around tuples were made optional so that array elements could be accessed through, for example, a[0,1] instead of a[(0,1)]. The slice syntax gained a step argument— a[::2] instead of just a[:], for example—and an ellipsis operator, which is useful when dealing with multidimensional data structures." Personally I'd much prefer D language to replace python for data science due to its Python like programming vibes but with more powerful real-time programming constructs, and its suitability for beginners or type A data scientists [3]. Python is already showing its limitations especially for the B type of data scientists [4]. There's recent discussions on Dlang forum for the potential improvements of D for data science and there's also recommendation for Walter to join such SIG as was Guido [5]. [1]Numpy History: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NumPy#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NumPy#History There's even recomendation from Dlang forum for Walter to join such SIG [3]. [2]Python for Scientists and Engineers: https://www.computer.org/csdl/magazine/cs/2011/02/mcs2011020009/13rRUx0xPMx https://www.computer.org/csdl/magazine/cs/2011/02/mcs2011020... [3]Teaching D from Scratch: Is it a viable first language? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29711800 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29711800 [4]Type A Data Scientist vs. Type B Data Scientist: https://www.projectpro.io/article/type-a-data-scientist-vs-type-b-data-scientist/194 https://www.projectpro.io/article/type-a-data-scientist-vs-t... [5]Dlang forum: Pandas like features: https://forum.dlang.org/thread/zuebxhkycgxsoipsgnbk@forum.dlang.org https://forum.dlang.org/thread/zuebxhkycgxsoipsgnbk@forum.dl...

civilized 5y ago
I'm sure Guido did things for the scientific community. My claim was that he probably didn't move the needle for them after coming to Google in 2005. The other person claimed that Google magic somehow led to Python becoming dominant in the sci/numeric/data computing community, and that just strikes me as wildly implausible. Google has done negligible foundational work on scientific Python. No one in that community has ever cared what Google thinks. Anyways, I'm curious why you think D has potential as a Data Science language? Why not a more popular language like Julia or Rust?