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I'm sure a ton of people do both or neither, since "people" is a pretty vague category. But based on those I've talked to myself, and the popularity of reddit's

I'm sure a ton of people do both or neither, since "people" is a pretty vague category. But based on those I've talked to myself, and the popularity of reddit's antiwork sub, along with the rumblings in social discourse for the past, I dunno, 30 years or more, there are a lot of PEOPLE out there who really just want to not work at all. There's some argument about the definition of "work", since many of them might wish to do something that would be defined as work if they were paid for it by an employer. Still, others would be perfectly content becoming characters from WALL-E. I don't know how to feel about those types yet.

throwaway75787 5y ago
I want to work a professional job on a reduced schedule, so that I can prioritise my personal life. 20-32 hours per week, and that can be divided a number of ways. Judging anecdotally from interviewing the past month or two (I took a year off to hone my expertise at my hobby), HR/recruiters are not exactly coping with the collective power shift to employees. I think either side is waiting to see who blinks first. It's too bad it has to be that way, but our system does pit us against each other. The way forward is to hire more people, pay people more, and give them more time off.
- ghostbrainalpha 5y ago
  You mind if I ask what your hobby is? I've been thinking about making a similar move.
moate 5y ago
>>Still, others would be perfectly content becoming characters from WALL-E. I don't know how to feel about those types yet. As someone who does know how to feel about those types, let me make a suggestion: Don't. That is to say, why does it matter to you? Is it because you need their labor for your happiness ("who will make my fries/clothes/things I'm incapable of making myself")? Then it's not their fault you feel that way, and they don't owe that to you. Is it because "work = a moral good"? Then you're wrong work is a thing people do because they have to in order to be able to acquire currency for the things they actually want to do. It has no inherent morality. Is it because "Mindless consumption is a moral bad"? Of course, but only because there's no ethical consumption under capitalism. The long and short of it is you don't lose much by people opting out of working. By that I mean the type of person who was going to put in the years of work dedicated to trying to cure cancer (or advance society in whatever way you personally feel would be the most valuable) is very unlikely to also be the type of person who is only interested in doing it because they "needed a job". TL-dr: Hang the jerk who invented work on the Big Rock Candy Mountain. (Edited for formatting/grammar)
- willcipriano 5y ago
  I hope everyone opts out of working, the more people that do the higher the price I command climbs. "Why aren't you competing with me?" is a silly notion to have.
- SubuSS 5y ago
  What if it is because I want to live in a productive society? I believe innovations come only from a productive society. The day we become wall-E characters is the day either AI has taken over or an Alien overlord has taken over. Then humans will go the way horses did - become pets and vanity objects. This also means the number of humans will go down the same way inevitably. I am not going to take up the socialist vs capitalist fight, I am very wary of the impacts of a huge consumption only society.
  - moate 5y ago
    The existence of a pure-consumer class (makes nothing, takes what they want/need) doesn't prevent a "productive society" from existing. If anything, is presupposes the existence of production (otherwise, where the hell are you finding things to consume while sitting in your comfy chair and slurping down nutrients) From your previous post: >>There's some argument about the definition of "work", since many of them might wish to do something that would be defined as work if they were paid for it by an employer. So let's start asking questions about your perception: How many people who want to opt out of work fall into your 2 categories of "doing 'work'" vs "Wall-E Characters" and how many fall into the 3rd category (which you seem to be) of people who want "jobs"? Further, how many innovations do you believe only exist because people were forced to partake the a system that involves jobs and work? My best guess is that there are enough people who have the ego to believe themselves capable of creating and innovating to take care of the rest by doing so, even everyone had all their basic needs met and people could opt out. I'm not arguing that everyone plug into the Matrix and let "big alien brother" keep us as pets. But if it's an option and people want to take it (while still allowing people like you to produce things), why is that bad? And why is innovation itself a moral good? Improvement =/= innovation.
    - 5y ago
sjtindell 5y ago
You would be hard pressed I think to produce someone who truly wanted to do nothing all day. People just want to do something they enjoy, not the meaningless drivel of most jobs. Just my anecdata.
- prawn 5y ago
  Lots of people in recent years have talked to me about their idea for a small, personal business. They despise their jobs and the grind, but as you say, all dream of working on something else, just something over which they have more control.
- munk-a 5y ago
  Personally, I'd be absolutely ecstatic to do nothing all day. I love nothing more than a quiet day with nothing on the agenda where I can just chill out and enjoy the world. Solving interesting problems is fun and all, but I don't really care to define my life around it.

throwaway75787 5y ago

I want to work a professional job on a reduced schedule, so that I can prioritise my personal life. 20-32 hours per week, and that can be divided a number of ways. Judging anecdotally from interviewing the past month or two (I took a year off to hone my expertise at my hobby), HR/recruiters are not exactly coping with the collective power shift to employees. I think either side is waiting to see who blinks first. It's too bad it has to be that way, but our system does pit us against each other. The way forward is to hire more people, pay people more, and give them more time off.

ghostbrainalpha 5y ago
You mind if I ask what your hobby is? I've been thinking about making a similar move.

moate 5y ago

>>Still, others would be perfectly content becoming characters from WALL-E. I don't know how to feel about those types yet. As someone who does know how to feel about those types, let me make a suggestion: Don't. That is to say, why does it matter to you? Is it because you need their labor for your happiness ("who will make my fries/clothes/things I'm incapable of making myself")? Then it's not their fault you feel that way, and they don't owe that to you. Is it because "work = a moral good"? Then you're wrong work is a thing people do because they have to in order to be able to acquire currency for the things they actually want to do. It has no inherent morality. Is it because "Mindless consumption is a moral bad"? Of course, but only because there's no ethical consumption under capitalism. The long and short of it is you don't lose much by people opting out of working. By that I mean the type of person who was going to put in the years of work dedicated to trying to cure cancer (or advance society in whatever way you personally feel would be the most valuable) is very unlikely to also be the type of person who is only interested in doing it because they "needed a job". TL-dr: Hang the jerk who invented work on the Big Rock Candy Mountain. (Edited for formatting/grammar)

willcipriano 5y ago
I hope everyone opts out of working, the more people that do the higher the price I command climbs. "Why aren't you competing with me?" is a silly notion to have.
SubuSS 5y ago
What if it is because I want to live in a productive society? I believe innovations come only from a productive society. The day we become wall-E characters is the day either AI has taken over or an Alien overlord has taken over. Then humans will go the way horses did - become pets and vanity objects. This also means the number of humans will go down the same way inevitably. I am not going to take up the socialist vs capitalist fight, I am very wary of the impacts of a huge consumption only society.
- moate 5y ago
  The existence of a pure-consumer class (makes nothing, takes what they want/need) doesn't prevent a "productive society" from existing. If anything, is presupposes the existence of production (otherwise, where the hell are you finding things to consume while sitting in your comfy chair and slurping down nutrients) From your previous post: >>There's some argument about the definition of "work", since many of them might wish to do something that would be defined as work if they were paid for it by an employer. So let's start asking questions about your perception: How many people who want to opt out of work fall into your 2 categories of "doing 'work'" vs "Wall-E Characters" and how many fall into the 3rd category (which you seem to be) of people who want "jobs"? Further, how many innovations do you believe only exist because people were forced to partake the a system that involves jobs and work? My best guess is that there are enough people who have the ego to believe themselves capable of creating and innovating to take care of the rest by doing so, even everyone had all their basic needs met and people could opt out. I'm not arguing that everyone plug into the Matrix and let "big alien brother" keep us as pets. But if it's an option and people want to take it (while still allowing people like you to produce things), why is that bad? And why is innovation itself a moral good? Improvement =/= innovation.
  - 5y ago

sjtindell 5y ago

You would be hard pressed I think to produce someone who truly wanted to do nothing all day. People just want to do something they enjoy, not the meaningless drivel of most jobs. Just my anecdata.

prawn 5y ago
Lots of people in recent years have talked to me about their idea for a small, personal business. They despise their jobs and the grind, but as you say, all dream of working on something else, just something over which they have more control.
munk-a 5y ago
Personally, I'd be absolutely ecstatic to do nothing all day. I love nothing more than a quiet day with nothing on the agenda where I can just chill out and enjoy the world. Solving interesting problems is fun and all, but I don't really care to define my life around it.