7 ms·

Is this the FLCCC that pushes ivermectin (a fine worm killer, but no panacea) for covid?

by yuubi 5y ago

swader999 5y ago
Ivermectin has many modes of action. It's been recognized as a potent anti viral long before covid. For instance, see Ivermectin is a specific inhibitor of importin α/β-mediated nuclear import able to inhibit replication of HIV-1 and dengue virus. Ivermectin is a potent inhibitor of flavivirus replication specifically targeting NS3 helicase activity: new prospects for an old drug. A screen of FDA-approved drugs for inhibitors of Zika virus infection.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
mikeyouse 5y ago
Yes - a bunch of discredited quacks (with multiple papers now retracted for the terrible quality of their science) causing enormous headaches for every practicing doctor and nurse having to treat the unvaccinated "Facebook Researchers" who end up in the hospital trying to get their useless cocktail of meds.
- swader999 5y ago
  What specifically in the linked protocol do you disagree with?
  - mikeyouse 5y ago
    I don't need to do a line-by-line rebuttal of a Covid protocol my HVAC technician wrote -- though he likely did more to help the pandemic by changing out HEPA air filters than the Front Link covid quacks did with their awful advice and martyr complex. If someone is catastrophically and unapologetically wrong on problem 1a, you don't really need to pay attention to their solution to problem 1b.
    - swader999 5y ago
      Ok, so just ad hominem then I guess. Lazy and a disservice to yourself and anyone suffering from this.
      - mikeyouse 5y ago
        Sometimes the timing is just great -- how about the fact that the protocol was designed by several grifters selling fraudulent "long Covid" tests and charging people thousands of dollars for tele-health visits where they then lie about lab tests and prescribe drugs that don't remotely work. Just published now: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/01/desperate-patients-are-shelling-out-thousands-for-a-long-covid-cure-is-it-for-real/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/01/desperate-patie... These people should be in prison.
        swader999 5y ago
        I didn't suggest anyone use IncellDX or covid long haulers.com. Just because Bruce Patterson had his name associated with the flccc doesn't prove anything about it's viability. Keep trying.
        mikeyouse 5y ago
        If the fact that fraudulent grifters developed the treatment protocol you're advocating for, I'm not sure where to go from there. (Not just Patterson, but Yogendra too -- it's not just "his name associated" with flccc -- he and yogendera are two of the primary authors of the protocol!) And if I understand your timeline right --- you think a single dose of the vaccine gave you "long covid" symptoms? So you're going to rely on the long-covid treatment path, even though you've never had the virus? Yikes man..
        swader999 5y ago
        Yikes man indeed. Hard to describe how desperate I was back then. If you read the protocol, you'd see where they describe how a subset of vaccine injury and long covid essential present and are treated identically. My story: got all the long covid symptoms, started eight hours after the AZ vaccine. Tested negative twice on pcr. 3.5 months with little improvement. Optometrist noted blood heme in eye, had a clot removed from forehead vein recently. Both of those noted within a week or three of vaccine date. At the 3.5 month date I started that protocol, first with ivermectin. Within five hours I felt better than I had in the past three months and then in five days brain fog, sob, headaches, extreme fatigue, heart issues, high blood pressure all resolved. I quit the daily dose of ivm then and started prednisone for remaining lung inflammation. (Describe this like extreme asthma, any deep inhalation would trigger coughing). That worked. I still have a bit of a dry like congestion that lingers (8 months since vax). Maybe I caught covid same time frame as vax but the two negative tests seem to not support that. The symptoms certainly presented right after the shot. They very clearly resolved a few hours after the ivermectin. It was like a light switch. My wife noticed improvement in my color even.
hammock 5y ago
If anyone is interested in the data available on ivermectin for COVID, and whether it works, you can find a lot of it here: https://c19ivermectin.com/ https://c19ivermectin.com/
- jrussino 5y ago
  I found Scott Alexander's review to be very informative: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/ivermectin-much-more-than-you-wanted https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/ivermectin-much-more-t...
  - swader999 5y ago
    I read all that a while back. It is good and about all you can get out of it is to conclude that ivermectin needs more study. Unfortunately its off patent and won't get much $$$ thrown at it. Its getting hard to ignore the growing mass of people that have just said, hey, this is obviously safe and I'll just try it. And holy sh-t it worked! (that's my story...).
    - yosame 5y ago
      If ivermectin actually worked, pharma companies would just make a new version with a slightly different structure and patent/sell that formula instead.
      - dolni 5y ago
        No they wouldn't, because it would be trivially outcompeted by current ivermectin which can be had for very, very cheaply.
        yosame 5y ago
        Then why hasn't the same thing happened to ketamine for the treatment of depression? Ketamine is widely available and cheap, but the FDA approved esketamine (the S enantiomer of ketamine) and gave the pharma companies a patent for the formulation so they would fund the clinical trials that are needed for it to be used as a treatment of depression. Esketamine is much, much more expensive than ketamine, and essentially the same molecule, yet it hasn't been 'outcompeted' by ketamine (in the context of treating depression). Because the new ivermectin (newermectin) would be specifically authorised and used to treat covid, it would have a niche advantage over ivermectin. Ivermectin would still dominate treating parasites, but there would still be good money in developing newermectin.

Is this the FLCCC that pushes ivermectin (a fine worm killer, but no panacea) for covid?

by yuubi 5y ago

Is this the FLCCC that pushes ivermectin (a fine worm killer, but no panacea) for covid?

Ivermectin has many modes of action. It's been recognized as a potent anti viral long before covid. For instance, see Ivermectin is a specific inhibitor of importin α/β-mediated nuclear import able to inhibit replication of HIV-1 and dengue virus. Ivermectin is a potent inhibitor of flavivirus replication specifically targeting NS3 helicase activity: new prospects for an old drug. A screen of FDA-approved drugs for inhibitors of Zika virus infection.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

mikeyouse 5y ago

Yes - a bunch of discredited quacks (with multiple papers now retracted for the terrible quality of their science) causing enormous headaches for every practicing doctor and nurse having to treat the unvaccinated "Facebook Researchers" who end up in the hospital trying to get their useless cocktail of meds.

swader999 5y ago
What specifically in the linked protocol do you disagree with?
- mikeyouse 5y ago
  I don't need to do a line-by-line rebuttal of a Covid protocol my HVAC technician wrote -- though he likely did more to help the pandemic by changing out HEPA air filters than the Front Link covid quacks did with their awful advice and martyr complex. If someone is catastrophically and unapologetically wrong on problem 1a, you don't really need to pay attention to their solution to problem 1b.
  - swader999 5y ago
    Ok, so just ad hominem then I guess. Lazy and a disservice to yourself and anyone suffering from this.
    - mikeyouse 5y ago
      Sometimes the timing is just great -- how about the fact that the protocol was designed by several grifters selling fraudulent "long Covid" tests and charging people thousands of dollars for tele-health visits where they then lie about lab tests and prescribe drugs that don't remotely work. Just published now: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/01/desperate-patients-are-shelling-out-thousands-for-a-long-covid-cure-is-it-for-real/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2022/01/desperate-patie... These people should be in prison.
      - swader999 5y ago
        I didn't suggest anyone use IncellDX or covid long haulers.com. Just because Bruce Patterson had his name associated with the flccc doesn't prove anything about it's viability. Keep trying.
        mikeyouse 5y ago
        If the fact that fraudulent grifters developed the treatment protocol you're advocating for, I'm not sure where to go from there. (Not just Patterson, but Yogendra too -- it's not just "his name associated" with flccc -- he and yogendera are two of the primary authors of the protocol!) And if I understand your timeline right --- you think a single dose of the vaccine gave you "long covid" symptoms? So you're going to rely on the long-covid treatment path, even though you've never had the virus? Yikes man..
        swader999 5y ago
        Yikes man indeed. Hard to describe how desperate I was back then. If you read the protocol, you'd see where they describe how a subset of vaccine injury and long covid essential present and are treated identically. My story: got all the long covid symptoms, started eight hours after the AZ vaccine. Tested negative twice on pcr. 3.5 months with little improvement. Optometrist noted blood heme in eye, had a clot removed from forehead vein recently. Both of those noted within a week or three of vaccine date. At the 3.5 month date I started that protocol, first with ivermectin. Within five hours I felt better than I had in the past three months and then in five days brain fog, sob, headaches, extreme fatigue, heart issues, high blood pressure all resolved. I quit the daily dose of ivm then and started prednisone for remaining lung inflammation. (Describe this like extreme asthma, any deep inhalation would trigger coughing). That worked. I still have a bit of a dry like congestion that lingers (8 months since vax). Maybe I caught covid same time frame as vax but the two negative tests seem to not support that. The symptoms certainly presented right after the shot. They very clearly resolved a few hours after the ivermectin. It was like a light switch. My wife noticed improvement in my color even.

hammock 5y ago

If anyone is interested in the data available on ivermectin for COVID, and whether it works, you can find a lot of it here: https://c19ivermectin.com/ https://c19ivermectin.com/

jrussino 5y ago
I found Scott Alexander's review to be very informative: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/ivermectin-much-more-than-you-wanted https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/ivermectin-much-more-t...
- swader999 5y ago
  I read all that a while back. It is good and about all you can get out of it is to conclude that ivermectin needs more study. Unfortunately its off patent and won't get much $$$ thrown at it. Its getting hard to ignore the growing mass of people that have just said, hey, this is obviously safe and I'll just try it. And holy sh-t it worked! (that's my story...).
  - yosame 5y ago
    If ivermectin actually worked, pharma companies would just make a new version with a slightly different structure and patent/sell that formula instead.
    - dolni 5y ago
      No they wouldn't, because it would be trivially outcompeted by current ivermectin which can be had for very, very cheaply.
      - yosame 5y ago
        Then why hasn't the same thing happened to ketamine for the treatment of depression? Ketamine is widely available and cheap, but the FDA approved esketamine (the S enantiomer of ketamine) and gave the pharma companies a patent for the formulation so they would fund the clinical trials that are needed for it to be used as a treatment of depression. Esketamine is much, much more expensive than ketamine, and essentially the same molecule, yet it hasn't been 'outcompeted' by ketamine (in the context of treating depression). Because the new ivermectin (newermectin) would be specifically authorised and used to treat covid, it would have a niche advantage over ivermectin. Ivermectin would still dominate treating parasites, but there would still be good money in developing newermectin.