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I don't think MLID has said anything besides that there won't be a Zen 3 Threadripper, because Intel still doesn't have anything that comes close to Zen 2 TR.

I don't think MLID has said anything besides that there won't be a Zen 3 Threadripper, because Intel still doesn't have anything that comes close to Zen 2 TR. Now, a Zen 4 Threadripper is extremely compelling because of DDR5 and PCIe 5.0.

pdimitar 5y ago
To be fair I'd be completely okay with them basically making TR and TR Pro with even more L3 cache and leave it at that. I'd still buy.
- kllrnohj 5y ago
  That's definitely not happening. The L3 is part of the chiplet, so they aren't going to take Zen 2 and rev it to have more L3. Rather they'd just swap it out with a Zen 3 chiptlet instead, which is far less work for AMD to do. Especially since TR & TR Pro already have way more L3 than anything else (128-256MB L3) I highly doubt we'll see a vcache version of TR/TR Pro prior to the jump to Zen 4, especially since so far AMD has only officially announced a 3d vcache 5800X which is a single-chiplet product ( https://www.anandtech.com/show/17152/amd-cpus-in-2022-ces https://www.anandtech.com/show/17152/amd-cpus-in-2022-ces )
  - pdimitar 5y ago
    Yep, I've definitely fallen behind on the info there. Looks like you are right. I do wonder though, what improvements will they bring to the next Threadrippers? There are some rumours about the start of March 2022, I am very curious what can they unveil. Any theories?
    - kllrnohj 5y ago
      A March 2022 Threadripper product would all but certainly just be a Zen 3 update. So compare the performance gains going from a 3950X to a 5950X or from Epyc 7002 to 7003. Just that but applied to Threadripper (so something like +15% performance)
      - pdimitar 5y ago
        Thank you. In the HEDT space a 15% improvement is quite good though. And I am not sure Zen 4 Threadrippers would even be available this year but who knows. Plenty of rumours. I better start saving up money because I want to invest in a workstation that will last me at least 10 years (minus SSD wear). And Zen 4 / PCIe v5 / DDR-5 look preeeeeeeetty good.
      - jagger27 5y ago
        I don’t understand the logic of waiting so long to launch an already outdated platform when Zen 4 is nearly ready to go. It’s just so late in the product cycle. I agree that a March launch would mean it would be on Zen 3.
        kllrnohj 5y ago
        Zen 4 is on TSMC 6nm and so is the new line of laptop skus running Zen3+, so I'd guess that they are just waiting for sufficient volumes to release another 7nm Zen 3 product. Epyc & Ryzen almost certainly pull much higher volumes for AMD than TR/TR Pro, and although Ryzen at least has been mostly available for the past couple months it was in short supply for quite a while there. I'd guess they planned on TR / TR Pro being a quicker followup after Epyc 7003 launched, but then chip capacity just wasn't there to justify it. And now it probably is, especially as their new stuff is on a different node.
        jagger27 5y ago
        But from a product perspective if there are still no competitors to the extant 2019 Threadripper SKUs, what's the point of such a minor bump today? I don't buy the capacity argument for the exact reason you mention: it's low volume. That's the whole beauty of the Zen architecture, right? They can shift capacity around after the wafer stage. The way I see it, Zen 2 Threadripper is still a good enough product for its goals of a shit load of cores. Zen 3 didn't increase core counts, but Zen 4 does. My suspicion is that AMD probably overproduced Zen 2 TR and is letting its supply run down until it can launch another category redefining product built on Zen 4. Plus, it would look even better in their comparison charts.
kllrnohj 5y ago
I could definitely see AMD not bothering with a Zen 3 Threadripper. The current TR socket mess doesn't look fun to update, and there's a new socket right around the corner anyway. But AMD is going to want to establish consistency with OEMs still, so Intel not having anything competitive right now is merely a reduction in pressure on AMD, not something that eliminates it entirely. A Zen 3 Threadripper Pro as a result still seems more likely than not, even if consumer Threadripper doesn't get a Zen 3 treatment. I'm sure AMD would also prefer to simplify the chiplets its fabricating as well. Why keep making Zen 2 chiptlets for TR Pro specifically and nothing else?

pdimitar 5y ago

To be fair I'd be completely okay with them basically making TR and TR Pro with even more L3 cache and leave it at that. I'd still buy.

kllrnohj 5y ago
That's definitely not happening. The L3 is part of the chiplet, so they aren't going to take Zen 2 and rev it to have more L3. Rather they'd just swap it out with a Zen 3 chiptlet instead, which is far less work for AMD to do. Especially since TR & TR Pro already have way more L3 than anything else (128-256MB L3) I highly doubt we'll see a vcache version of TR/TR Pro prior to the jump to Zen 4, especially since so far AMD has only officially announced a 3d vcache 5800X which is a single-chiplet product ( https://www.anandtech.com/show/17152/amd-cpus-in-2022-ces https://www.anandtech.com/show/17152/amd-cpus-in-2022-ces )
- pdimitar 5y ago
  Yep, I've definitely fallen behind on the info there. Looks like you are right. I do wonder though, what improvements will they bring to the next Threadrippers? There are some rumours about the start of March 2022, I am very curious what can they unveil. Any theories?
  - kllrnohj 5y ago
    A March 2022 Threadripper product would all but certainly just be a Zen 3 update. So compare the performance gains going from a 3950X to a 5950X or from Epyc 7002 to 7003. Just that but applied to Threadripper (so something like +15% performance)
    - pdimitar 5y ago
      Thank you. In the HEDT space a 15% improvement is quite good though. And I am not sure Zen 4 Threadrippers would even be available this year but who knows. Plenty of rumours. I better start saving up money because I want to invest in a workstation that will last me at least 10 years (minus SSD wear). And Zen 4 / PCIe v5 / DDR-5 look preeeeeeeetty good.
    - jagger27 5y ago
      I don’t understand the logic of waiting so long to launch an already outdated platform when Zen 4 is nearly ready to go. It’s just so late in the product cycle. I agree that a March launch would mean it would be on Zen 3.
      - kllrnohj 5y ago
        Zen 4 is on TSMC 6nm and so is the new line of laptop skus running Zen3+, so I'd guess that they are just waiting for sufficient volumes to release another 7nm Zen 3 product. Epyc & Ryzen almost certainly pull much higher volumes for AMD than TR/TR Pro, and although Ryzen at least has been mostly available for the past couple months it was in short supply for quite a while there. I'd guess they planned on TR / TR Pro being a quicker followup after Epyc 7003 launched, but then chip capacity just wasn't there to justify it. And now it probably is, especially as their new stuff is on a different node.
        jagger27 5y ago
        But from a product perspective if there are still no competitors to the extant 2019 Threadripper SKUs, what's the point of such a minor bump today? I don't buy the capacity argument for the exact reason you mention: it's low volume. That's the whole beauty of the Zen architecture, right? They can shift capacity around after the wafer stage. The way I see it, Zen 2 Threadripper is still a good enough product for its goals of a shit load of cores. Zen 3 didn't increase core counts, but Zen 4 does. My suspicion is that AMD probably overproduced Zen 2 TR and is letting its supply run down until it can launch another category redefining product built on Zen 4. Plus, it would look even better in their comparison charts.

kllrnohj 5y ago

I could definitely see AMD not bothering with a Zen 3 Threadripper. The current TR socket mess doesn't look fun to update, and there's a new socket right around the corner anyway. But AMD is going to want to establish consistency with OEMs still, so Intel not having anything competitive right now is merely a reduction in pressure on AMD, not something that eliminates it entirely. A Zen 3 Threadripper Pro as a result still seems more likely than not, even if consumer Threadripper doesn't get a Zen 3 treatment. I'm sure AMD would also prefer to simplify the chiplets its fabricating as well. Why keep making Zen 2 chiptlets for TR Pro specifically and nothing else?