7 ms·

I wish more people took road safety seriously. I was driving around California a lot over the holidays and was appalled (as usual) by how few drivers bother to

I wish more people took road safety seriously. I was driving around California a lot over the holidays and was appalled (as usual) by how few drivers bother to use turn signals on the freeway. It's such a mind-bogglingly simple thing to do that any person who can't manage it should probably be denied a license.

tenebrisalietum 5y ago
Denying a license won't prevent people from driving. The whole driver license thing is honestly a joke due to the entire country's survival being 100% reliant on cars. Fines/jail time is needed instead.
- jjnoakes 5y ago
  Wouldn't that naturally happen once you make mistakes without a license?
  - recursive 5y ago
    Yes. But a mistake implies a likelihood of some damage. Better to do it earlier if practical. I'm not sure if it is though. (practical)
  - zip1234 5y ago
    No--society is ridiculously lenient towards any driving offense.
president 5y ago
Because enforcement and deterrence is too light
jamespullar 5y ago
I have been laughed at by passengers in my car before for using my turn signals when no other cars were around. That really blew my mind the first time. Why anyone would try shaming someone else for adhering to safe driving practices is beyond me. If you just use them all the time, you don't have to remember to use them in the right situation. That was a concept more than one person I know couldn't understand. This was in California with other licensed drivers.
- gitgrump 5y ago
  "Integrity is doing the right thing, even when no one is watching." — C. S. Lewis, allegedly.
- b3morales 5y ago
  Indeed. Beyond that, it's also entirely possible there's someone -- a pedestrian on the sidewalk ahead, a driver about to exit their driveway... -- that you don't see but who is interested in what you're planning to do. (This happens to me commonly as a pedestrian.)
- upofadown 5y ago
  That implies poor training. It sounds like the people involved do not know why they are supposed to signal in the first place.
  - acdha 5y ago
    It's not training: they 100% know that you're supposed to signal, stop at red lights or stop signs, park in the middle of a traffic lane, not cross a solid double yellow to pass someone going the speed limit, etc. The people who do that are choosing to do it because they feel whatever they're doing is more important and they know that most police departments stopped doing traffic enforcement years ago because it's beneath post-9/11 warrior cops unless they're looking for an excuse to search someone's car.
    - upofadown 5y ago
      But do they know why they are supposed to do those things? You might try asking someone sometime. The result could be surprising.
- standardUser 5y ago
  The ever-so-slight flicking of the wrist is apparently an arduous task for some people.
- mason55 5y ago
et-al 5y ago
I live on a busy street and we can see into cars at the stoplight. The majority of drivers have their phones in their hands while waiting at the light and always take an extra second or two to get going when the light turns green. People don't realize the gravity of operating two-ton deathmachines and would prefer to do anything but pay attention to the road and their surroundings.
- mason55 5y ago
  > The majority of drivers have their phones in their hands while waiting at the light and always take an extra second or two to get going when the light turns green. > People don't realize the gravity of operating two-ton deathmachines and would prefer to do anything but pay attention to the road and their surroundings. I agree with your latter statement but I don't think that overdramatizing helps. Someone looking at their phone while the car is stopped at a light is not creating much of a hazard, even if it does take them an extra second or two to get going.
  - b3morales 5y ago
    Yes, agreed, we should not exaggerate. But guaranteed that more problems are caused by drivers who are looking at their phones while stopped than those that continue to pay attention to traffic. Because some amount of the distracted ones will suddenly start moving again when something has happened in the meantime to make that dangerous or inappropriate.
  - Freak_NL 5y ago
    They're still active participants in traffic. Someone who is waiting for the signal without the distraction of a smartphone will have seen the flows of traffic commence and stop in the other lanes and the roads that meet at the crossing, and will go into the crossing more relaxed and with better situational awareness than the person who just got jarred from chatting with someone about whether to get take out, and “oh, could you drive past the supermarket to get some wine?” into moving because of the honking behind them. They are also much more likely to notice irregular or otherwise unsafe behaviour by others around them (like a kid on a BMX dashing across at the pedestrian crossing too late to beat the lights). Collectively, these moments of reduced attention cause way more harm than they should, all because so many people can't leave their damn phone alone while operating a vehicle in traffic.
rambambram 5y ago
I once visited Istanbul and sat in a bus during rush hour. Cars seemed to just go wherever they'd like, but only when a car wasn't using the turn signal everybody started honking.
scruple 5y ago
Not using a turn signal is probably the least offensive thing that I see while driving around SoCal, to be perfectly honest with you. Not a day goes by that I don't see people blowing through stop signs and even red lights now. I don't even drive that much, really... Under 10 miles a day during the week, all local traffic. But I still see people every single day being extremely dangerous and acting without any regard for themselves or the people around them. Just being on or near the roads stresses me out now. Even if I'm just on the sidewalk, I can detect a higher level of background anxiety happening. I've lost any degree of trust I ever had in other drivers. My observations have led me to believe that the lack of accountability in cars is owed to a lack of enforcement. If the rules aren't enforced then they cease to be rules. edit/ Words are hard.
- gitgrump 5y ago
  I doubt enforcement has changed significantly. I'm more willing to believe that this is part of the slow unraveling of the social contract in the United States. Everyone hates each other, and now people are driving like it too.
  - scruple 5y ago
    That may very well be. Especially in California. Where I grew up in Ohio, there was a lot of traffic enforcement. Conversations with family leads me to believe there is still some degree of enforcement happening in that area, But I've seen little or none in California, outside of I-5 speed traps.
  - zip1234 5y ago
    Traffic enforcement using police officers is just not very effective. People are bad at judging the risk of driving, especially as environment changes (highway to city) and as such do not very well self enforce. Speed traps only slow drivers immediately after the police officers (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/245559162_Study_of_the_Impact_of_Police_Enforcement_on_Motorists'_Speeds) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/245559162_Study_of_.... The only enforcement that will actually move the needle in my opinion is automated enforcement such as speed governors and cameras.
wdr1 5y ago
The problem in California is I've seen countless times were other cars speed up to block me when I use my turn signal to change lanes. I still use them, but I can understand why that deters some people.

tenebrisalietum 5y ago

Denying a license won't prevent people from driving. The whole driver license thing is honestly a joke due to the entire country's survival being 100% reliant on cars. Fines/jail time is needed instead.

jjnoakes 5y ago
Wouldn't that naturally happen once you make mistakes without a license?
- recursive 5y ago
  Yes. But a mistake implies a likelihood of some damage. Better to do it earlier if practical. I'm not sure if it is though. (practical)
- zip1234 5y ago
  No--society is ridiculously lenient towards any driving offense.

president 5y ago

Because enforcement and deterrence is too light

jamespullar 5y ago

I have been laughed at by passengers in my car before for using my turn signals when no other cars were around. That really blew my mind the first time. Why anyone would try shaming someone else for adhering to safe driving practices is beyond me. If you just use them all the time, you don't have to remember to use them in the right situation. That was a concept more than one person I know couldn't understand. This was in California with other licensed drivers.

gitgrump 5y ago
"Integrity is doing the right thing, even when no one is watching." — C. S. Lewis, allegedly.
b3morales 5y ago
Indeed. Beyond that, it's also entirely possible there's someone -- a pedestrian on the sidewalk ahead, a driver about to exit their driveway... -- that you don't see but who is interested in what you're planning to do. (This happens to me commonly as a pedestrian.)
upofadown 5y ago
That implies poor training. It sounds like the people involved do not know why they are supposed to signal in the first place.
- acdha 5y ago
  It's not training: they 100% know that you're supposed to signal, stop at red lights or stop signs, park in the middle of a traffic lane, not cross a solid double yellow to pass someone going the speed limit, etc. The people who do that are choosing to do it because they feel whatever they're doing is more important and they know that most police departments stopped doing traffic enforcement years ago because it's beneath post-9/11 warrior cops unless they're looking for an excuse to search someone's car.
  - upofadown 5y ago
    But do they know why they are supposed to do those things? You might try asking someone sometime. The result could be surprising.
standardUser 5y ago
The ever-so-slight flicking of the wrist is apparently an arduous task for some people.
mason55 5y ago

et-al 5y ago

I live on a busy street and we can see into cars at the stoplight. The majority of drivers have their phones in their hands while waiting at the light and always take an extra second or two to get going when the light turns green. People don't realize the gravity of operating two-ton deathmachines and would prefer to do anything but pay attention to the road and their surroundings.

mason55 5y ago
> The majority of drivers have their phones in their hands while waiting at the light and always take an extra second or two to get going when the light turns green. > People don't realize the gravity of operating two-ton deathmachines and would prefer to do anything but pay attention to the road and their surroundings. I agree with your latter statement but I don't think that overdramatizing helps. Someone looking at their phone while the car is stopped at a light is not creating much of a hazard, even if it does take them an extra second or two to get going.
- b3morales 5y ago
  Yes, agreed, we should not exaggerate. But guaranteed that more problems are caused by drivers who are looking at their phones while stopped than those that continue to pay attention to traffic. Because some amount of the distracted ones will suddenly start moving again when something has happened in the meantime to make that dangerous or inappropriate.
- Freak_NL 5y ago
  They're still active participants in traffic. Someone who is waiting for the signal without the distraction of a smartphone will have seen the flows of traffic commence and stop in the other lanes and the roads that meet at the crossing, and will go into the crossing more relaxed and with better situational awareness than the person who just got jarred from chatting with someone about whether to get take out, and “oh, could you drive past the supermarket to get some wine?” into moving because of the honking behind them. They are also much more likely to notice irregular or otherwise unsafe behaviour by others around them (like a kid on a BMX dashing across at the pedestrian crossing too late to beat the lights). Collectively, these moments of reduced attention cause way more harm than they should, all because so many people can't leave their damn phone alone while operating a vehicle in traffic.

rambambram 5y ago

I once visited Istanbul and sat in a bus during rush hour. Cars seemed to just go wherever they'd like, but only when a car wasn't using the turn signal everybody started honking.

scruple 5y ago

Not using a turn signal is probably the least offensive thing that I see while driving around SoCal, to be perfectly honest with you. Not a day goes by that I don't see people blowing through stop signs and even red lights now. I don't even drive that much, really... Under 10 miles a day during the week, all local traffic. But I still see people every single day being extremely dangerous and acting without any regard for themselves or the people around them. Just being on or near the roads stresses me out now. Even if I'm just on the sidewalk, I can detect a higher level of background anxiety happening. I've lost any degree of trust I ever had in other drivers. My observations have led me to believe that the lack of accountability in cars is owed to a lack of enforcement. If the rules aren't enforced then they cease to be rules. edit/ Words are hard.

gitgrump 5y ago
I doubt enforcement has changed significantly. I'm more willing to believe that this is part of the slow unraveling of the social contract in the United States. Everyone hates each other, and now people are driving like it too.
- scruple 5y ago
  That may very well be. Especially in California. Where I grew up in Ohio, there was a lot of traffic enforcement. Conversations with family leads me to believe there is still some degree of enforcement happening in that area, But I've seen little or none in California, outside of I-5 speed traps.
- zip1234 5y ago
  Traffic enforcement using police officers is just not very effective. People are bad at judging the risk of driving, especially as environment changes (highway to city) and as such do not very well self enforce. Speed traps only slow drivers immediately after the police officers (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/245559162_Study_of_the_Impact_of_Police_Enforcement_on_Motorists'_Speeds) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/245559162_Study_of_.... The only enforcement that will actually move the needle in my opinion is automated enforcement such as speed governors and cameras.

wdr1 5y ago

The problem in California is I've seen countless times were other cars speed up to block me when I use my turn signal to change lanes. I still use them, but I can understand why that deters some people.