4 ms·

I read stuff like this (not this book specifically) from the OCCRP or ICIJ occasionally and I'm beginning to have my doubts about all of it. It's always based

by from 5y ago

I read stuff like this (not this book specifically) from the OCCRP or ICIJ occasionally and I'm beginning to have my doubts about all of it. It's always based on innuendo and insinuation. Like "the grandson of this Nigeria politician is one of the directors of some Delaware company that also has a director that was arrested for customs fraud in Morocco. He also didn't respond to our phone calls. Therefore he is a 'potentially corrupt shadowy official'". And the call to action at the end of course is always to increase financial surveillance despite the current already heavyhanded approach massively failing.

Quarrelsome 5y ago
maybe its failing because people who own money and thus influence resist the regulations.
xwolfi 5y ago
Yes, you know how it is when you start knowing something you start realizing journalist reporting of it, while not entirely false, is quite imprecise and simplifying ? I work in an investment bank, on the trading floor, and when I hear reports on how we're supposed to be and act, I feel it is so different from how people actually are and think. For instance, they ignore incompetence and always assign to malice, they think being legit is less important to us than robbing money, they always describe us as amoral, parasitic, conspiratorial. It's an enticing narrative each time, but except when they have actual email exchanges (like the Millenium emails during the Maddoff SEC investigation - that painted the right picture, professional, missing information, imperfect but not anti-blue collar conspiracy lol), I can't really trust it anymore. The FinCEN files by BuzzFeed were so trash, it was surreal to hear... We gave regulatory reports they leaked irresponsibly about suspicious activity by our fee-paying clients we are forbidden to tip off by refusing to talk to them, and we're now "hiding crime", maybe even "facilitating" it, tsk. They warned a lot of people that day, good job.
- pyuser583 5y ago
  I strongly recommend reading the book. Kleptopeia. It’s focused on the UK, but portrays the US legal and regulatory as system pretty positive compared the UK/EU (early 2010s). When justice happens, it tends to happen in America. Organizations like the FBI, FDIC, and US Attorneys are very powerful compared to their European counterparts. Courts are much less corrupt as well.
  - xwolfi 5y ago
    The EU is vast, it's hard to say "EU justice is more corrupt". Maybe Italy is more than NL for instance ? As for the U.S. they operate on principles I disagree with: very heavy prison sentences, focus on lies rather than criminal facts sometimes (like lying to the FBI is more dramatically bad than missing a tax payment), elected AGs if I understood, something we can't do in Europe (it'll turn into plebiscits and push towards political law enforcement brrrr). I'd correct you buy saying: "when justice happens in the US, it tends to be very punitive and detailed", maybe ? I really don't think the U.S. provides fairer reparation than Germany or Sweden, it's just difference legal ideologies.
pyuser583 5y ago
That’s one of the issues Kleptopeia addresses. Corrupt politicians use innuendo and hatred to corrupt politicians to attack their opponents in the West. As their opponents are often corrupt themselves, you can’t just look at the narrative. After all the narrative is: “corrupt politicians are doing these horrible things; stop them!” This sort of reporting is very hard and very fact dependent. It contains horror stories of the Khazakh leader using Western courts to persecute his opponents. That’s possible because (a) the opponents aren’t saints, and (b) money is necessary to buy justice. The dictators use money to hire western lawyers, western lawyers to win court cases, won court cases to establish facts, facts to destroy opponents legal status, fewer opponents to get more power, and power to get more money. Power -> money -> lawyers/consultants (Tony Blair) -> truth -> power.

by from 5y ago

Quarrelsome 5y ago

maybe its failing because people who own money and thus influence resist the regulations.

xwolfi 5y ago

Yes, you know how it is when you start knowing something you start realizing journalist reporting of it, while not entirely false, is quite imprecise and simplifying ? I work in an investment bank, on the trading floor, and when I hear reports on how we're supposed to be and act, I feel it is so different from how people actually are and think. For instance, they ignore incompetence and always assign to malice, they think being legit is less important to us than robbing money, they always describe us as amoral, parasitic, conspiratorial. It's an enticing narrative each time, but except when they have actual email exchanges (like the Millenium emails during the Maddoff SEC investigation - that painted the right picture, professional, missing information, imperfect but not anti-blue collar conspiracy lol), I can't really trust it anymore. The FinCEN files by BuzzFeed were so trash, it was surreal to hear... We gave regulatory reports they leaked irresponsibly about suspicious activity by our fee-paying clients we are forbidden to tip off by refusing to talk to them, and we're now "hiding crime", maybe even "facilitating" it, tsk. They warned a lot of people that day, good job.

pyuser583 5y ago
I strongly recommend reading the book. Kleptopeia. It’s focused on the UK, but portrays the US legal and regulatory as system pretty positive compared the UK/EU (early 2010s). When justice happens, it tends to happen in America. Organizations like the FBI, FDIC, and US Attorneys are very powerful compared to their European counterparts. Courts are much less corrupt as well.
- xwolfi 5y ago
  The EU is vast, it's hard to say "EU justice is more corrupt". Maybe Italy is more than NL for instance ? As for the U.S. they operate on principles I disagree with: very heavy prison sentences, focus on lies rather than criminal facts sometimes (like lying to the FBI is more dramatically bad than missing a tax payment), elected AGs if I understood, something we can't do in Europe (it'll turn into plebiscits and push towards political law enforcement brrrr). I'd correct you buy saying: "when justice happens in the US, it tends to be very punitive and detailed", maybe ? I really don't think the U.S. provides fairer reparation than Germany or Sweden, it's just difference legal ideologies.

pyuser583 5y ago

That’s one of the issues Kleptopeia addresses. Corrupt politicians use innuendo and hatred to corrupt politicians to attack their opponents in the West. As their opponents are often corrupt themselves, you can’t just look at the narrative. After all the narrative is: “corrupt politicians are doing these horrible things; stop them!” This sort of reporting is very hard and very fact dependent. It contains horror stories of the Khazakh leader using Western courts to persecute his opponents. That’s possible because (a) the opponents aren’t saints, and (b) money is necessary to buy justice. The dictators use money to hire western lawyers, western lawyers to win court cases, won court cases to establish facts, facts to destroy opponents legal status, fewer opponents to get more power, and power to get more money. Power -> money -> lawyers/consultants (Tony Blair) -> truth -> power.