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Typical day-to-day programming never requires you to find the median of two-sorted arrays, so a self-taught programmer generally has never thought about how you

Typical day-to-day programming never requires you to find the median of two-sorted arrays, so a self-taught programmer generally has never thought about how you would tackle a problem like that, especially given the complexity requirement (O(log (m+n))) stated in that problem. If your brain immediately knows what to do when you read that problem, then you probably have a CS degree. If you have to spend 5 min thinking about the complexity notation before you even start the problem, then you probably don't have a CS degree.

Cd00d 5y ago
And if you see that and go "do they actually say the words 'big oh' when they speak that outloud..." you're interviewing as successfully as I do! I really appreciate your greater point. I've been given all sorts of CS problems in interviews that I don't have any background in understanding the context enough to know what to do. I changed careers from experimental physics, so my software work is essentially self taught. That doesn't mean I'm totally useless in my job or not an asset to my team or can't deliver products that generate massive revenue. But, those things are how interviewers make me feel.
kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
But wouldn't it be exactly the hallmark of a self-taught programmer to be able to figure things out on their own? In general I don't think a programmer can expect the kind of job where they only do standard things all the time? Merging and comparing arrays as in that task also seems like something that might actually come up in a job. However, I take the point of the other comment that the real issue here is doing it with certain speed requirements. That does make it harder, indeed, but still doable.
- jugg1es 5y ago
  Absolutely - a self-taught programmer should be able to figure out how to solve that problem. All I'm saying is that it's going to take longer for the self-taught to solve it because it's not something they have thought much about before. Having a CS degree gives you a large advantage when solving problems like this, but that advantage is markedly lower when you are trying solve typical real-world problems in the private sector.
- PenguinCoder 5y ago
  Self taught programmer here. I get stuff done for the project or program I'm working on. I learn how to do what I need to do securely and automate a lot. I can figure out documentation of frameworks, libraries and random code written 10yrs ago. I can glue things together or write new code in python, golang, C, C++, shell, nim, lua, and others. I'm self taught where it matters to get my job done. Self learning 'big O' is a waste of time and effort. Never have I needed to know it to accomplish a task beyond interviews. Don't nest six for loops, reading lines from a file into memory each loop. Got it, learnt it, can do. Next problem. This gatekeeping attitude is bullshit.
  - kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
    I never used the O notation in a job, but I have seen people waste cycles. For example in the early days of ORM, I saw people load the whole table and then sort and filter in Java, rather than writing appropriate SQL queries. Understanding Big O notation is not that difficult and everybody knows it is a common question in interviews. Analyzing specific algorithms can of course be difficult.
- ZephyrBlu 5y ago
  > But wouldn't it be exactly the hallmark of a self-taught programmer to be able to figure things out on their own? Self-taught or not, no one is able to derive an optimal solution to algorithm problems on the fly. You must have previously learnt the technique, and probably practiced applying it a lot.

Cd00d 5y ago

And if you see that and go "do they actually say the words 'big oh' when they speak that outloud..." you're interviewing as successfully as I do! I really appreciate your greater point. I've been given all sorts of CS problems in interviews that I don't have any background in understanding the context enough to know what to do. I changed careers from experimental physics, so my software work is essentially self taught. That doesn't mean I'm totally useless in my job or not an asset to my team or can't deliver products that generate massive revenue. But, those things are how interviewers make me feel.

kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago

But wouldn't it be exactly the hallmark of a self-taught programmer to be able to figure things out on their own? In general I don't think a programmer can expect the kind of job where they only do standard things all the time? Merging and comparing arrays as in that task also seems like something that might actually come up in a job. However, I take the point of the other comment that the real issue here is doing it with certain speed requirements. That does make it harder, indeed, but still doable.

jugg1es 5y ago
Absolutely - a self-taught programmer should be able to figure out how to solve that problem. All I'm saying is that it's going to take longer for the self-taught to solve it because it's not something they have thought much about before. Having a CS degree gives you a large advantage when solving problems like this, but that advantage is markedly lower when you are trying solve typical real-world problems in the private sector.
PenguinCoder 5y ago
Self taught programmer here. I get stuff done for the project or program I'm working on. I learn how to do what I need to do securely and automate a lot. I can figure out documentation of frameworks, libraries and random code written 10yrs ago. I can glue things together or write new code in python, golang, C, C++, shell, nim, lua, and others. I'm self taught where it matters to get my job done. Self learning 'big O' is a waste of time and effort. Never have I needed to know it to accomplish a task beyond interviews. Don't nest six for loops, reading lines from a file into memory each loop. Got it, learnt it, can do. Next problem. This gatekeeping attitude is bullshit.
- kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
  I never used the O notation in a job, but I have seen people waste cycles. For example in the early days of ORM, I saw people load the whole table and then sort and filter in Java, rather than writing appropriate SQL queries. Understanding Big O notation is not that difficult and everybody knows it is a common question in interviews. Analyzing specific algorithms can of course be difficult.
ZephyrBlu 5y ago
> But wouldn't it be exactly the hallmark of a self-taught programmer to be able to figure things out on their own? Self-taught or not, no one is able to derive an optimal solution to algorithm problems on the fly. You must have previously learnt the technique, and probably practiced applying it a lot.