6 ms·

I think I’m going to start taking aspirin. Oddly enough I took that a few times because I didn’t have ibuprofen and I do feel like it helped a lot with the wei

I think I’m going to start taking aspirin. Oddly enough I took that a few times because I didn’t have ibuprofen and I do feel like it helped a lot with the weird long symptoms I am experiencing. I’m triple vaccinated before anyone asks. I haven’t tested positive for Covid on rapid tests but a lot of people seem to be in the boat I’m in right now.

open-source-ux 5y ago
"I think I’m going to start taking aspirin" In the UK there is a large, ongoing clinical trial called 'RECOVER' to test different COVID treaments for hospitalised COVID patients. One of the trials included giving hospitalised patients aspirin. The trial was not looking at the treatment of long-covid symptoms (at least not directly in hospital patients). "A total of 7351 patients were randomised to aspirin 150 mg once daily and compared with 7541 patients randomised to usual care alone. There was no evidence that aspirin treatment reduced mortality." Link: RECOVERY trial finds aspirin does not improve survival for patients hospitalised with COVID-19: https://www.recoverytrial.net/news/recovery-trial-finds-aspirin-does-not-improve-survival-for-patients-hospitalised-with-covid-19 https://www.recoverytrial.net/news/recovery-trial-finds-aspi...
- cdrini 5y ago
  This doesn't feel super applicable. The body in the middle of a COVID infection vs months later is in a VERY different state. Also I don't even know if there's any mortality data for long COVID; it could just provide quality of life degradation.
  - jacobolus 5y ago
    I saw an observational study tracking hospitalized (but nominally surviving) Covid patients for a year where a far higher number died (of various causes) than the base rate in the population [sorry I can’t find a link now in a few minutes of searching]. Some of this is selection bias (people who get bad Covid cases tend to be in worse shape to begin with), but I would expect the after-effects of Covid to cause significantly increased mortality. We’ll have much better data about this in a few years.
- criddell 5y ago
  If aspirin doesn't improve survival, does that mean it also will not help with COVID symptoms?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- deelowe 5y ago
  It feels to me that the medical community at large looks almost exclusively at data regarding severe cases. I'm certainly no medical expert but it seems reasonable to me that the treatments for someone who is literally dying from COVID could be completely orthogonal from those who are in the early stages of the infection. My understanding of severe cases is that the body is no longer or not only fighting the virus but also it's own immune response amongst other things (e.g. blood clotting). And that outcomes are mostly determined by how well the individual is able to weather the storm of their own immune system attacking them. I would not expect aspirin or similar treatments to have much effect when the patient has gotten to this point. Thought certainly, there could be some treatments that help which would prevent this from happening in the first place. And, I'm aware of the research (and money) being poured into antivirals. Of course that's a thing. I'm sure there are billions if not trillions to be made off a pill you "simply take daily" to prevent the "severe and long covid." The headlines write themselves. But I seriously wonder what research is being done on "mild" covid cases using more cheap/traditional medicines. I know where I live, the doctors don't even talk to you unless your case gets severe - basically once you need oxygen supplementation. Prior to that, you're told to stay home and rest. I'm not even sure they create a record in their medical system.
  - phkahler 5y ago
    >> It feels to me that the medical community at large looks almost exclusively at data regarding severe cases. I'm certainly no medical expert but it seems reasonable to me that the treatments for someone who is literally dying from COVID could be completely orthogonal from those who are in the early stages of the infection. This seems to be a problem with every account of "treatment X doesn't work". They wait until someone is half dead, use X, patient dies at same rate as without X, conclude X is worthless. "preventive" or "protective" are different words than "curative" and that seems to get overlooked in a lot of cases. Doctor A: When I see someone with Covid Symptoms I give XYZ and they never end up in the hospital. ER Doctor: We've tried X,Y, and Z in every combination with patients on ventilators and none of that saves them with any statistical significance. They can both be correct.
    - Jabbles 5y ago
- cinntaile 5y ago
  He's not talking about using aspirin as a treatment for when you are hospitalised due to covid.
- JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
  Thank you for the study. I’m not worried about mortality so much as getting over the strange long effects I’m feeling. I see this study as well. https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210315/low-dose-aspirin-may-help-shield-you-from-covid-19 https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210315/low-dose-aspirin-ma... > But Magen's group found that people who'd already been taking low-dose aspirin to reduce their risk of heart disease had a 29% lower risk of contracting COVID-19 compared to those who didn't take aspirin, and that rates of aspirin use were much lower among COVID-19 patients than among those who didn't get infected. >Among people who did get COVID-19, the time it took for SARS-CoV-2 PCR test results to go from positive to negative was significantly shorter among those who used aspirin, and the duration of their disease was two-three days shorter, depending upon preexisting health conditions.
- phkahler 5y ago
  >> RECOVERY trial finds aspirin does not improve survival for patients hospitalised with COVID-19 How is survival defined? Do they mean "gets released from hospital vs. dies in hospital"? Because it seems a lot of things that can reduce severity of Covid (including vitamin D for example) don't change much at the last minute when you're at deaths door. In this case, we're talking about long Covid symptoms so it would seem a reduction in 1-year mortality should be the deciding factor (since Severe Covid patients who "survive" still have significantly increase mortality over the next year).
kybernetyk 5y ago
>I think I’m going to start taking aspirin. Hmm, this is probably hardcore anecdata and off topic but a friend of mine who got Corona pretty bad (but not hospital bad) said that once he took Aspirin his symptoms weren't that bad anymore.
- merpnderp 5y ago
  I mean everyone should consult their doctor before doing something like this, but it seems reasonable that a disease which damages the body through blood clots would be alleviated by a drug which thins the blood.
andor 5y ago
I assume you have read the hint that the authors left in the introduction for people like you: "Such a regime must only be followed under strict and qualified medical guidance to obviate any dangers, especially haemorrhagic bleeding, and of the therapy as a whole."
- JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
  Well yes I’m doing a very light version of the protocol, no industrial strength anticoagulants. :)
  - lrem 5y ago
    So likely you won't meet the "better than placebo" threshold.
    - nick__m 5y ago
      A placebo is frequently better than nothing and sometimes better than the real thing. I can even work if you know that it's a placebo ! Also placebo are getting stronger https://drdavidhamilton.com/the-placebo-effect-is-getting-stronger/ https://drdavidhamilton.com/the-placebo-effect-is-getting-st... ;)
      - ouid 5y ago
        Mechanistically, placebo can only work on psychosomatic symptoms. There isn't any magic going on. If the problem is in your head, then thoughts can maybe help.
        dpark 5y ago
        Your head largely controls the rest of your body. If you take a placebo that you expect to make you angry, your levels of adrenaline will likely rise. There are all sorts of measurable, physiological changes that can be induced by placebo.
        5y ago
heyoni 5y ago
Might work for Covid. Oddly enough, it was recently declared to be unsafe for long term use unless directed by a doctor since it can increase the chance of getting a stroke. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/health/aspirin-heart-attack-stroke.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/health/aspirin-heart-atta...
easymodex 5y ago
I just got the booster shot today, previous times I had a weird headache and a new vein (felt it pulsing, didn't have it before) popped up in the white part of my eye (it's still there after 6 months), second time I had minor heart palpitations the day after so I'm kinda worried this time. Would taking Aspirin help prevent any kind of weirdness like that? I need to know asap so I can take it before anything potentially starts happening.
- frostwarrior 5y ago
  Vaccines are not Covid. Even the inactivated virus ones. They're just a very small viral load with an adjuvant to enhance immune response.
  - merpnderp 5y ago
    The mRNA vaccines create spike proteins which are fully functional and will bind to ACE2 receptors. The only real difference is that the mRNA vaccine spike proteins don't cleave off their connectors and litter your blood with extra trash and also won't flex down to the cell wall. But any cell randomly getting a spike protein tag-alone likely will no longer be a fully functioning cell.
    - swader999 5y ago
      Yes! And I think it's fair to assume that the vaccine spike can distribute widely throughout your body. Long covid and a subset of vaccine injury cases are very hard to distinguish. They present the same symptoms.
      - manwe150 5y ago
        Why? We can hypothesize anything, but we shouldn’t just assume everything. The manufacturers made changes to the RNA sequence to reduce the ability to leave the cell, and then tested it in animal studies to confirm.
        5y ago
ck2 5y ago
The clotting in covid is fibrin based not platelet. If aspirin did anything for covid you'd be seeing it on the news every single day for the past two years.
- EricE 5y ago
  - _Microft 5y ago
    Have you read [0] already? This might give you an idea what might be going on with Ivermectin. Summary: parasite infections are widespread in some parts of the world. Treatment for Covid surpresses overzealous parts of the immune system which, unfortunately, makes the patient vulnerable to these parasite infections which in turn can kill the patient. Giving someone Ivermectin before treating them for Covid solves the problem by killing the parasites first. Therefore Ivermectin decreases the risk of death with Covid (not by). [0] https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/ivermectin-much-more-than-you-wanted https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/ivermectin-much-more-t...
  - lame-robot-hoax 5y ago
    I don’t see Ivermectin on the following list: https://www.pmda.go.jp/english/about-pmda/0002.html https://www.pmda.go.jp/english/about-pmda/0002.html Over 77% of Japan’s population is fully vaccinated. India doesn’t even recommend using Ivermectin anymore.
- beagle3 5y ago
  Budedenide was shown to help significantly if given early. So does fluvoxamine. And sufficient vitamin D3 level seems to work well as a prophylactic. And yet there’s hardly any mention of them, let alone “everyday”.
  - ck2 5y ago
    If you read only positive analysis of those supplements/drugs, they always seem positive. Except they aren't doing what you think because you don't hear when they don't work. https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/tables/fluvoxamine-data/ https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/tables/fluvox... "No difference between arms in time to symptom resolution" "Fluvoxamine did not impact time to symptom resolution"
LinuxBender 5y ago
I believe this was attempted at the start of covid once doctors saw some of the initial mechanisms. I want to say they stopped this because it caused downstream problems and complications with covid but I can't recall what. I believe it was Dr. Roger Seheult and another doctor discussing this on Medcram but he releases so many videos I can't find the specific one.
treeman79 5y ago
I clot like crazy. Micro and bigger ones. stroke symptoms in 48 hours without meds. Prescription blood thinners solve symptoms extremely well. I couldn’t handle side effects, so I switched to Aspirin. It mostly works. But not as well. Side effects aren’t as bad. Doctors are pissed. But quality of life matters.
naasking 5y ago
Long-term ibuprofen use has a lot of its own problems, like gastrointestinal bleeds and interference with androgen production.
randcraw 5y ago
80 mg/day aspirin generally has been shown to be safe long term, though it does increase irritation of the stomach. Maybe taking it with food will help that. I would absolutely NOT do the same with ibuprofen or any other NSAID. All other NSAIDs but aspirin have been shown to reduce blood vessel elasticity after habitual use. Adopting any med for regular use is not something to take lightly. "Ibuprofen, aspirin, and COX-2s all belong to the class of medicines called nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs). Most of them boost blood pressure and can counteract the effect of some blood-pressure drugs. They can also impair blood vessels' ability to relax and may stimulate the growth of smooth muscle cells inside arteries. All these changes can contribute to the artery-clogging process known as atherosclerosis." https://www.health.harvard.edu/press_releases/nsaid-side-effects https://www.health.harvard.edu/press_releases/nsaid-side-eff...
- datameta 5y ago
  Just got off daily naproxen (aleve) after ~6-7 years. Sanctioned by my doctor but was an important milestone stop taking it all the time. I dont know where it lays on the spectrum of safety amongst other NSAIDs but I sure am glad to not need it all the time anymore.

open-source-ux 5y ago

"I think I’m going to start taking aspirin" In the UK there is a large, ongoing clinical trial called 'RECOVER' to test different COVID treaments for hospitalised COVID patients. One of the trials included giving hospitalised patients aspirin. The trial was not looking at the treatment of long-covid symptoms (at least not directly in hospital patients). "A total of 7351 patients were randomised to aspirin 150 mg once daily and compared with 7541 patients randomised to usual care alone. There was no evidence that aspirin treatment reduced mortality." Link: RECOVERY trial finds aspirin does not improve survival for patients hospitalised with COVID-19: https://www.recoverytrial.net/news/recovery-trial-finds-aspirin-does-not-improve-survival-for-patients-hospitalised-with-covid-19 https://www.recoverytrial.net/news/recovery-trial-finds-aspi...

cdrini 5y ago
This doesn't feel super applicable. The body in the middle of a COVID infection vs months later is in a VERY different state. Also I don't even know if there's any mortality data for long COVID; it could just provide quality of life degradation.
- jacobolus 5y ago
  I saw an observational study tracking hospitalized (but nominally surviving) Covid patients for a year where a far higher number died (of various causes) than the base rate in the population [sorry I can’t find a link now in a few minutes of searching]. Some of this is selection bias (people who get bad Covid cases tend to be in worse shape to begin with), but I would expect the after-effects of Covid to cause significantly increased mortality. We’ll have much better data about this in a few years.
criddell 5y ago
If aspirin doesn't improve survival, does that mean it also will not help with COVID symptoms?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
deelowe 5y ago
It feels to me that the medical community at large looks almost exclusively at data regarding severe cases. I'm certainly no medical expert but it seems reasonable to me that the treatments for someone who is literally dying from COVID could be completely orthogonal from those who are in the early stages of the infection. My understanding of severe cases is that the body is no longer or not only fighting the virus but also it's own immune response amongst other things (e.g. blood clotting). And that outcomes are mostly determined by how well the individual is able to weather the storm of their own immune system attacking them. I would not expect aspirin or similar treatments to have much effect when the patient has gotten to this point. Thought certainly, there could be some treatments that help which would prevent this from happening in the first place. And, I'm aware of the research (and money) being poured into antivirals. Of course that's a thing. I'm sure there are billions if not trillions to be made off a pill you "simply take daily" to prevent the "severe and long covid." The headlines write themselves. But I seriously wonder what research is being done on "mild" covid cases using more cheap/traditional medicines. I know where I live, the doctors don't even talk to you unless your case gets severe - basically once you need oxygen supplementation. Prior to that, you're told to stay home and rest. I'm not even sure they create a record in their medical system.
- phkahler 5y ago
  >> It feels to me that the medical community at large looks almost exclusively at data regarding severe cases. I'm certainly no medical expert but it seems reasonable to me that the treatments for someone who is literally dying from COVID could be completely orthogonal from those who are in the early stages of the infection. This seems to be a problem with every account of "treatment X doesn't work". They wait until someone is half dead, use X, patient dies at same rate as without X, conclude X is worthless. "preventive" or "protective" are different words than "curative" and that seems to get overlooked in a lot of cases. Doctor A: When I see someone with Covid Symptoms I give XYZ and they never end up in the hospital. ER Doctor: We've tried X,Y, and Z in every combination with patients on ventilators and none of that saves them with any statistical significance. They can both be correct.
  - Jabbles 5y ago
cinntaile 5y ago
He's not talking about using aspirin as a treatment for when you are hospitalised due to covid.
JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
Thank you for the study. I’m not worried about mortality so much as getting over the strange long effects I’m feeling. I see this study as well. https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210315/low-dose-aspirin-may-help-shield-you-from-covid-19 https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210315/low-dose-aspirin-ma... > But Magen's group found that people who'd already been taking low-dose aspirin to reduce their risk of heart disease had a 29% lower risk of contracting COVID-19 compared to those who didn't take aspirin, and that rates of aspirin use were much lower among COVID-19 patients than among those who didn't get infected. >Among people who did get COVID-19, the time it took for SARS-CoV-2 PCR test results to go from positive to negative was significantly shorter among those who used aspirin, and the duration of their disease was two-three days shorter, depending upon preexisting health conditions.
phkahler 5y ago
>> RECOVERY trial finds aspirin does not improve survival for patients hospitalised with COVID-19 How is survival defined? Do they mean "gets released from hospital vs. dies in hospital"? Because it seems a lot of things that can reduce severity of Covid (including vitamin D for example) don't change much at the last minute when you're at deaths door. In this case, we're talking about long Covid symptoms so it would seem a reduction in 1-year mortality should be the deciding factor (since Severe Covid patients who "survive" still have significantly increase mortality over the next year).

kybernetyk 5y ago

>I think I’m going to start taking aspirin. Hmm, this is probably hardcore anecdata and off topic but a friend of mine who got Corona pretty bad (but not hospital bad) said that once he took Aspirin his symptoms weren't that bad anymore.

merpnderp 5y ago
I mean everyone should consult their doctor before doing something like this, but it seems reasonable that a disease which damages the body through blood clots would be alleviated by a drug which thins the blood.

andor 5y ago

I assume you have read the hint that the authors left in the introduction for people like you: "Such a regime must only be followed under strict and qualified medical guidance to obviate any dangers, especially haemorrhagic bleeding, and of the therapy as a whole."

JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
Well yes I’m doing a very light version of the protocol, no industrial strength anticoagulants. :)
- lrem 5y ago
  So likely you won't meet the "better than placebo" threshold.
  - nick__m 5y ago
    A placebo is frequently better than nothing and sometimes better than the real thing. I can even work if you know that it's a placebo ! Also placebo are getting stronger https://drdavidhamilton.com/the-placebo-effect-is-getting-stronger/ https://drdavidhamilton.com/the-placebo-effect-is-getting-st... ;)
    - ouid 5y ago
      Mechanistically, placebo can only work on psychosomatic symptoms. There isn't any magic going on. If the problem is in your head, then thoughts can maybe help.
      - dpark 5y ago
        Your head largely controls the rest of your body. If you take a placebo that you expect to make you angry, your levels of adrenaline will likely rise. There are all sorts of measurable, physiological changes that can be induced by placebo.
      - 5y ago

heyoni 5y ago

Might work for Covid. Oddly enough, it was recently declared to be unsafe for long term use unless directed by a doctor since it can increase the chance of getting a stroke. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/health/aspirin-heart-attack-stroke.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/health/aspirin-heart-atta...

easymodex 5y ago

I just got the booster shot today, previous times I had a weird headache and a new vein (felt it pulsing, didn't have it before) popped up in the white part of my eye (it's still there after 6 months), second time I had minor heart palpitations the day after so I'm kinda worried this time. Would taking Aspirin help prevent any kind of weirdness like that? I need to know asap so I can take it before anything potentially starts happening.

frostwarrior 5y ago
Vaccines are not Covid. Even the inactivated virus ones. They're just a very small viral load with an adjuvant to enhance immune response.
- merpnderp 5y ago
  The mRNA vaccines create spike proteins which are fully functional and will bind to ACE2 receptors. The only real difference is that the mRNA vaccine spike proteins don't cleave off their connectors and litter your blood with extra trash and also won't flex down to the cell wall. But any cell randomly getting a spike protein tag-alone likely will no longer be a fully functioning cell.
  - swader999 5y ago
    Yes! And I think it's fair to assume that the vaccine spike can distribute widely throughout your body. Long covid and a subset of vaccine injury cases are very hard to distinguish. They present the same symptoms.
    - manwe150 5y ago
      Why? We can hypothesize anything, but we shouldn’t just assume everything. The manufacturers made changes to the RNA sequence to reduce the ability to leave the cell, and then tested it in animal studies to confirm.
      - 5y ago

ck2 5y ago

The clotting in covid is fibrin based not platelet. If aspirin did anything for covid you'd be seeing it on the news every single day for the past two years.

EricE 5y ago
- _Microft 5y ago
  Have you read [0] already? This might give you an idea what might be going on with Ivermectin. Summary: parasite infections are widespread in some parts of the world. Treatment for Covid surpresses overzealous parts of the immune system which, unfortunately, makes the patient vulnerable to these parasite infections which in turn can kill the patient. Giving someone Ivermectin before treating them for Covid solves the problem by killing the parasites first. Therefore Ivermectin decreases the risk of death with Covid (not by). [0] https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/ivermectin-much-more-than-you-wanted https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/ivermectin-much-more-t...
- lame-robot-hoax 5y ago
  I don’t see Ivermectin on the following list: https://www.pmda.go.jp/english/about-pmda/0002.html https://www.pmda.go.jp/english/about-pmda/0002.html Over 77% of Japan’s population is fully vaccinated. India doesn’t even recommend using Ivermectin anymore.
beagle3 5y ago
Budedenide was shown to help significantly if given early. So does fluvoxamine. And sufficient vitamin D3 level seems to work well as a prophylactic. And yet there’s hardly any mention of them, let alone “everyday”.
- ck2 5y ago
  If you read only positive analysis of those supplements/drugs, they always seem positive. Except they aren't doing what you think because you don't hear when they don't work. https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/tables/fluvoxamine-data/ https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/tables/fluvox... "No difference between arms in time to symptom resolution" "Fluvoxamine did not impact time to symptom resolution"

LinuxBender 5y ago

I believe this was attempted at the start of covid once doctors saw some of the initial mechanisms. I want to say they stopped this because it caused downstream problems and complications with covid but I can't recall what. I believe it was Dr. Roger Seheult and another doctor discussing this on Medcram but he releases so many videos I can't find the specific one.

treeman79 5y ago

I clot like crazy. Micro and bigger ones. stroke symptoms in 48 hours without meds. Prescription blood thinners solve symptoms extremely well. I couldn’t handle side effects, so I switched to Aspirin. It mostly works. But not as well. Side effects aren’t as bad. Doctors are pissed. But quality of life matters.

naasking 5y ago

Long-term ibuprofen use has a lot of its own problems, like gastrointestinal bleeds and interference with androgen production.

randcraw 5y ago

80 mg/day aspirin generally has been shown to be safe long term, though it does increase irritation of the stomach. Maybe taking it with food will help that. I would absolutely NOT do the same with ibuprofen or any other NSAID. All other NSAIDs but aspirin have been shown to reduce blood vessel elasticity after habitual use. Adopting any med for regular use is not something to take lightly. "Ibuprofen, aspirin, and COX-2s all belong to the class of medicines called nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs). Most of them boost blood pressure and can counteract the effect of some blood-pressure drugs. They can also impair blood vessels' ability to relax and may stimulate the growth of smooth muscle cells inside arteries. All these changes can contribute to the artery-clogging process known as atherosclerosis." https://www.health.harvard.edu/press_releases/nsaid-side-effects https://www.health.harvard.edu/press_releases/nsaid-side-eff...

datameta 5y ago
Just got off daily naproxen (aleve) after ~6-7 years. Sanctioned by my doctor but was an important milestone stop taking it all the time. I dont know where it lays on the spectrum of safety amongst other NSAIDs but I sure am glad to not need it all the time anymore.