3 ms·

> Science is pretty clear on the amount: it’s 42%. What science? There's not even a way to claim that number in the article. I would personally argue that the

> Science is pretty clear on the amount: it’s 42%. What science? There's not even a way to claim that number in the article. I would personally argue that there is an optimal stopping point that is true in other problems. That number is 1/e or 37%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimal_stopping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimal_stopping 37% of a 24 hour day is ~9 hours. Most people work ~8-9 hours a day before stopping. Most people sleep for ~8-9 hours a day. Most people have leisure for ~8-9 hours a day. This percentage is pretty consistent & has actual backing in other applications. There are other major variables not accounted for such as circadian rhythm and your biological working clock, but that's besides the point.

Jeff_Brown 5y ago
The thing is that the eight hours of work is not all the work, it's just all the work for your employer. When I sleep eight hours and work eight hours, given that i also have to do bio maintenace (eat, shower, etc.) for around three hours, and do chores for two hours, I'm left with about three.
- thenerdhead 5y ago
  That makes sense given it's 37% of your leisure time.
  - Jeff_Brown 5y ago
    It should add up to 24 hours but I have my doubts. Maybe my timeline leaks.
throw1234651234 5y ago
Work 8-5 Study for work 5-8 Gym 8-10 Chores 10-11 Free time 11-12 Burn out: imminent
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  > Work 8-5 > Study for work 5-8 That’s not normal. If you’re doing this, you’re actually working 8-8. This schedule can work for a short periods and special occasions, but it shouldn’t be your norm. This can usually be fixed by improving your efficiency at work: Get down to business quickly and limit time spent browsing the internet and other non-work activities. Consolidate work to normal working hours, save the leisure for later. > Gym 8-10 Also not normal or even necessary. A 30-minute gym trip is more than sufficient to stay in great shape. You can also go 2-3 times a week instead of 7 days a week. Spending 10-14 hours at the gym every week is an extreme outlier of exercise.
  - HPsquared 5y ago
    On the gym front, it probably includes the 30-40 minutes before and after the actual exercise (travel to/from, changing clothes, spa, shower, food, etc.).
  - marginalia_nu 5y ago
    30 minutes is basically a single working set if you include travel, warm-up, shower, travel back home. I'm assuming the gym time includes thing such as travelling to the gym, showering, unpacking the gym bag, etc. I usually spend about 60-90 minutes in the gym a few times a week, but from the time I leave my front door and arrive back home, the clock has never advanced less than 2 hours.
  - throw1234651234 5y ago
    I am very, very bored with my life. I am not even remotely interested in anything I have done for the past 10 years. I can't imagine it getting better without moving "up". Which I have done, but I also didn't start in tech, nor do I have a degree (in comp sci, I have other ones). To stay "architect level" at a competitive company (not even close to FAANG), I will need to learn a language and pass an AWS architect exam in Q1. Both are very doable and stuff I have done before, but 3 hours barely gets me through a couple of algo problems in the new lang. I a 1000 times agree that I could be more efficient at work - I think it's a cycle of burning out and then being slow. I want to stress this - I am looking for ways to be more efficient at work. I know I could be more productive during, rather than doing a bunch of OT. And as Sun Tzu said - no one wins from a prolonged conflict - better to do things quickly than drawing them out and getting tired without result. Like marginalia_nu and hpsquared said, 30 mins isn't anywhere near enough. On my off days, I walk or run at least 45 minutes. On gym days, optimally - 10 min dress and drive, 15 mins warm up, 30-45 mins main lifts, 15 mins stretch, 15 mins skill work, drive home, shower, notes. This is what's needed for me to stay in shape. Also, when I work out this much, 8 hours is barely enough in terms of sleep, and then my diet has to be on point or I start being tired all the time. Not working out has the additional (short term) benefit of needing less food and sleep.
- tluyben2 5y ago
  Sounds like he'll on earth indeed. Definitely something I could maintain more than a very short period.
- Jeff_Brown 5y ago
  Studying for work is work! You should count it that way. If you're not, you're harming not just yourself but, in the long run, your employer (who won't understand what they're asking of people) and your other coworkers (who feel pressure to meet your standard).
9dev 5y ago
As if most people would really spend 8-9 hours a day working. Most people get payed for 8 hours, but actually work 3-4 hours per day, at most. The rest of the day is spent idling, procrastinating, or socialising - and all of that is important to stay healthy. Bottom line, humans are no equations and there is more to it than "nice" numbers.
- thenerdhead 5y ago
  Yeah. 8 hours allocated for work. Stopping after ~3 hours or 37%. Totally agreed that what is allocated doesn't get used and there's no nice numbers since law of averages.
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  > The rest of the day is spent idling, procrastinating, or socialising I agree that most people don’t actually work with 100% efficiency, but I disagree that everyone is procrastinating for 4-5 hours every day. That much procrastination is the norm at certain companies, but try it at a tightly-run company and you’ll quickly fall behind your peers. Note that communications, e-mail, and meetings really are “work” even if programmers often don’t count them. However, straight up procrastination is definitely not work.

Jeff_Brown 5y ago

The thing is that the eight hours of work is not all the work, it's just all the work for your employer. When I sleep eight hours and work eight hours, given that i also have to do bio maintenace (eat, shower, etc.) for around three hours, and do chores for two hours, I'm left with about three.

thenerdhead 5y ago
That makes sense given it's 37% of your leisure time.
- Jeff_Brown 5y ago
  It should add up to 24 hours but I have my doubts. Maybe my timeline leaks.

throw1234651234 5y ago

Work 8-5 Study for work 5-8 Gym 8-10 Chores 10-11 Free time 11-12 Burn out: imminent

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> Work 8-5 > Study for work 5-8 That’s not normal. If you’re doing this, you’re actually working 8-8. This schedule can work for a short periods and special occasions, but it shouldn’t be your norm. This can usually be fixed by improving your efficiency at work: Get down to business quickly and limit time spent browsing the internet and other non-work activities. Consolidate work to normal working hours, save the leisure for later. > Gym 8-10 Also not normal or even necessary. A 30-minute gym trip is more than sufficient to stay in great shape. You can also go 2-3 times a week instead of 7 days a week. Spending 10-14 hours at the gym every week is an extreme outlier of exercise.
- HPsquared 5y ago
  On the gym front, it probably includes the 30-40 minutes before and after the actual exercise (travel to/from, changing clothes, spa, shower, food, etc.).
- marginalia_nu 5y ago
  30 minutes is basically a single working set if you include travel, warm-up, shower, travel back home. I'm assuming the gym time includes thing such as travelling to the gym, showering, unpacking the gym bag, etc. I usually spend about 60-90 minutes in the gym a few times a week, but from the time I leave my front door and arrive back home, the clock has never advanced less than 2 hours.
- throw1234651234 5y ago
  I am very, very bored with my life. I am not even remotely interested in anything I have done for the past 10 years. I can't imagine it getting better without moving "up". Which I have done, but I also didn't start in tech, nor do I have a degree (in comp sci, I have other ones). To stay "architect level" at a competitive company (not even close to FAANG), I will need to learn a language and pass an AWS architect exam in Q1. Both are very doable and stuff I have done before, but 3 hours barely gets me through a couple of algo problems in the new lang. I a 1000 times agree that I could be more efficient at work - I think it's a cycle of burning out and then being slow. I want to stress this - I am looking for ways to be more efficient at work. I know I could be more productive during, rather than doing a bunch of OT. And as Sun Tzu said - no one wins from a prolonged conflict - better to do things quickly than drawing them out and getting tired without result. Like marginalia_nu and hpsquared said, 30 mins isn't anywhere near enough. On my off days, I walk or run at least 45 minutes. On gym days, optimally - 10 min dress and drive, 15 mins warm up, 30-45 mins main lifts, 15 mins stretch, 15 mins skill work, drive home, shower, notes. This is what's needed for me to stay in shape. Also, when I work out this much, 8 hours is barely enough in terms of sleep, and then my diet has to be on point or I start being tired all the time. Not working out has the additional (short term) benefit of needing less food and sleep.
tluyben2 5y ago
Sounds like he'll on earth indeed. Definitely something I could maintain more than a very short period.
Jeff_Brown 5y ago
Studying for work is work! You should count it that way. If you're not, you're harming not just yourself but, in the long run, your employer (who won't understand what they're asking of people) and your other coworkers (who feel pressure to meet your standard).

9dev 5y ago

As if most people would really spend 8-9 hours a day working. Most people get payed for 8 hours, but actually work 3-4 hours per day, at most. The rest of the day is spent idling, procrastinating, or socialising - and all of that is important to stay healthy. Bottom line, humans are no equations and there is more to it than "nice" numbers.

thenerdhead 5y ago
Yeah. 8 hours allocated for work. Stopping after ~3 hours or 37%. Totally agreed that what is allocated doesn't get used and there's no nice numbers since law of averages.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> The rest of the day is spent idling, procrastinating, or socialising I agree that most people don’t actually work with 100% efficiency, but I disagree that everyone is procrastinating for 4-5 hours every day. That much procrastination is the norm at certain companies, but try it at a tightly-run company and you’ll quickly fall behind your peers. Note that communications, e-mail, and meetings really are “work” even if programmers often don’t count them. However, straight up procrastination is definitely not work.