3 ms·

This is a neat idea, but misapplied. You have 100% choice over who you want to let into your home. The law could apply to registered Bed and Breakfast busines

This is a neat idea, but misapplied. You have 100% choice over who you want to let into your home. The law could apply to registered Bed and Breakfast businesses, and perhaps those where people are renting a professionally managed full home or flat - but not for people inviting others into their homes, and renting just a room. If a woman does not want to rent a room to the 6 foot 4 burly biker with tattoos it's 100% her prerogative. In fact, if a woman doesn't want to rent a room to men at all, that's perfectly fine as well. These are rooms in people's living spaces, which to me is distinct from regular business transactions. The initial premise of AirBnB was something absolutely more intimate than a 'business' and they consistently have touted it as such. I think that there's a distinction between what AirBnB has promoted - and a regular Bed and Breakfast, and even distinct from Uber/Cab, which is something much more transactional.

KarlKemp 5y ago
When did you last stay at an AirBnB? It might also differ by location. But the three or four bookings I had over the last four years were all apartments rented with the sole purpose to rent them out.
Miner49er 5y ago
This is completely ignoring the Fair Housing Act of 1968. As soon as you start renting out your "home", you lose the right to choose who you let into it on the basis of the renter's race, gender, religion, or nationality.
- rootsudo 5y ago
  Nope - you can discriminate legally if you cohabit your home. "are individual bedrooms within an apartment a “dwelling” protected by the Fair Housing Act? The court gave its answer on February 3rd, and the answer was no: the Act does not protect roommate searches." " The home is the center of our private lives. Roommates note our comings and goings, observe whom we bring back at night, hear what songs we sing in the shower, see us in various stages of undress and learn intimate details most of us prefer to keep private…. [two paragraphs omitted] “Liberty protects the person from unwarranted government intrusions into a dwelling or other private places. In our tradition the State is not omnipresent in the home.” Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. 558, 562 (2003). Holding that the FHA applies inside a home or apartment would allow the government to restrict our ability to choose roommates compatible with our lifestyles. This would be a serious invasion of privacy, autonomy and security. For example, women will often look for female roommates because of modesty or security concerns. As roommates often share bathrooms and common areas, a girl may not want to walk around in her towel in front of a boy. She might also worry about unwanted sexual advances or becoming romantically involved with someone she must count on to pay the rent. An orthodox Jew may want a roommate with similar beliefs and dietary restrictions, so he won’t have to worry about finding honey-baked ham in the refrigerator next to the potato latkes… Taking away the ability to choose roommates with similar dietary restrictions and religious convictions will substantially burden the observant Jew’s ability to live his life and practice his religion faithfully. The same is true of individuals of other faiths that call for dietary restrictions or rituals inside the home."
  - Miner49er 5y ago
    We're talking about Airbnb. Not finding a roommate. This is a good point though, but I'm not sure a court would consider looking for a roommate and renting out a room on Airbnb as the same thing. This would also only apply if you are going to cohabit the space you're renting out, like you said. Which I think is likely the minority of places on Airbnb at this point.
  - letthisbemywrit 5y ago
    In addition to what rootsudo just wrote: If you live in a building with up to 4 units, you are exempt from the fair housing act. I'm a airbnb host, if a renter has less than a certain amount of reviews I try search social media and other records for the users name. If I'm only given initials I would deny these requests if they didn't have enough reviews.
  - lotaezenwa 5y ago
    The case cited was actually Fair Housing Council of San Fernando Valley v. Roommate.com, LLC (9th Cir. 2012)
- jollybean 5y ago
  I actually indicated that renting the 'full home' then my comments would not apply. I was specifically referring to 'a room'. It doesn't matter what legislation is in place, I'm speaking rhetorically about what is appropriate or not. Again: Having a guest in a room in your home is different than a strict commercial transaction. We have 'Female Only' gyms - which are commercial. We have 'Safe Spaces' on campus, which is public property. Private individuals can chose who they want in their bedrooms. It gets less fuzzy beyond that.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
matthewmacleod 5y ago
Right, but in practice the moment you start charging people to provide them with a service, you are running a business – with the responsibilities that entails. AirBnB is a vast global corporation that people use primarily as an alternative to hotels. Regardless of whatever the initial ideas may have been, it's not a cosy intimate exchange platform for people who want to stay in each other's homes.
nonameiguess 5y ago
I guess there needs to be another AirBnB that is actually specifically for renting out single rooms. As it stands, every one I've ever stayed at, I had the entire place to myself. I've never rented a single room from someone. Right now, I'm not sure there is a way for the law to apply when the same umbrella business offers both normal rentals and single-room rentals where you cohabitate with the owner. If an apartment building owner happens to also rent one room in the apartment they live in, it doesn't mean FHA no longer applies to the entire building.
shadowgovt 5y ago
> You have 100% choice over who you want to let into your home. Well, that's the tricky part, isn't it. Because to a first approximation: yes, obviously. But when you're allowing a third party to broker deals between you and a stranger where they exchange money for time spent in your home, it starts to look a lot more like you're a market-rate lodging provider and there's all kinds of civil rights law that should start to attach. Because the Civil Rights Act is specifically targeted against individuals making private decisions regarding their property (in a market setting).

KarlKemp 5y ago

When did you last stay at an AirBnB? It might also differ by location. But the three or four bookings I had over the last four years were all apartments rented with the sole purpose to rent them out.

Miner49er 5y ago

This is completely ignoring the Fair Housing Act of 1968. As soon as you start renting out your "home", you lose the right to choose who you let into it on the basis of the renter's race, gender, religion, or nationality.

rootsudo 5y ago
Nope - you can discriminate legally if you cohabit your home. "are individual bedrooms within an apartment a “dwelling” protected by the Fair Housing Act? The court gave its answer on February 3rd, and the answer was no: the Act does not protect roommate searches." " The home is the center of our private lives. Roommates note our comings and goings, observe whom we bring back at night, hear what songs we sing in the shower, see us in various stages of undress and learn intimate details most of us prefer to keep private…. [two paragraphs omitted] “Liberty protects the person from unwarranted government intrusions into a dwelling or other private places. In our tradition the State is not omnipresent in the home.” Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. 558, 562 (2003). Holding that the FHA applies inside a home or apartment would allow the government to restrict our ability to choose roommates compatible with our lifestyles. This would be a serious invasion of privacy, autonomy and security. For example, women will often look for female roommates because of modesty or security concerns. As roommates often share bathrooms and common areas, a girl may not want to walk around in her towel in front of a boy. She might also worry about unwanted sexual advances or becoming romantically involved with someone she must count on to pay the rent. An orthodox Jew may want a roommate with similar beliefs and dietary restrictions, so he won’t have to worry about finding honey-baked ham in the refrigerator next to the potato latkes… Taking away the ability to choose roommates with similar dietary restrictions and religious convictions will substantially burden the observant Jew’s ability to live his life and practice his religion faithfully. The same is true of individuals of other faiths that call for dietary restrictions or rituals inside the home."
- Miner49er 5y ago
  We're talking about Airbnb. Not finding a roommate. This is a good point though, but I'm not sure a court would consider looking for a roommate and renting out a room on Airbnb as the same thing. This would also only apply if you are going to cohabit the space you're renting out, like you said. Which I think is likely the minority of places on Airbnb at this point.
- letthisbemywrit 5y ago
  In addition to what rootsudo just wrote: If you live in a building with up to 4 units, you are exempt from the fair housing act. I'm a airbnb host, if a renter has less than a certain amount of reviews I try search social media and other records for the users name. If I'm only given initials I would deny these requests if they didn't have enough reviews.
- lotaezenwa 5y ago
  The case cited was actually Fair Housing Council of San Fernando Valley v. Roommate.com, LLC (9th Cir. 2012)
jollybean 5y ago
I actually indicated that renting the 'full home' then my comments would not apply. I was specifically referring to 'a room'. It doesn't matter what legislation is in place, I'm speaking rhetorically about what is appropriate or not. Again: Having a guest in a room in your home is different than a strict commercial transaction. We have 'Female Only' gyms - which are commercial. We have 'Safe Spaces' on campus, which is public property. Private individuals can chose who they want in their bedrooms. It gets less fuzzy beyond that.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

matthewmacleod 5y ago

Right, but in practice the moment you start charging people to provide them with a service, you are running a business – with the responsibilities that entails. AirBnB is a vast global corporation that people use primarily as an alternative to hotels. Regardless of whatever the initial ideas may have been, it's not a cosy intimate exchange platform for people who want to stay in each other's homes.

nonameiguess 5y ago

I guess there needs to be another AirBnB that is actually specifically for renting out single rooms. As it stands, every one I've ever stayed at, I had the entire place to myself. I've never rented a single room from someone. Right now, I'm not sure there is a way for the law to apply when the same umbrella business offers both normal rentals and single-room rentals where you cohabitate with the owner. If an apartment building owner happens to also rent one room in the apartment they live in, it doesn't mean FHA no longer applies to the entire building.

shadowgovt 5y ago

> You have 100% choice over who you want to let into your home. Well, that's the tricky part, isn't it. Because to a first approximation: yes, obviously. But when you're allowing a third party to broker deals between you and a stranger where they exchange money for time spent in your home, it starts to look a lot more like you're a market-rate lodging provider and there's all kinds of civil rights law that should start to attach. Because the Civil Rights Act is specifically targeted against individuals making private decisions regarding their property (in a market setting).