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> Now, the property rental company is trying an experiment to help rectify the problem, changing the way Oregon-based guest profile names appear during the book

> Now, the property rental company is trying an experiment to help rectify the problem, changing the way Oregon-based guest profile names appear during the booking process I cant take any of these corporations seriously when they only do the progressive thing in a single jurisdiction in response to a single jurisdictions progressive laws > This update is consistent with the voluntary settlement agreement we reached in 2019 with individuals in Oregon Then that should be the title of the article, instead of the pr puff piece

actually_a_dog 5y ago
I think you are overlooking the word "experiment." I would expect this to be rolled out more extensively if the experiment were successful.
- vmception 5y ago
  I’m overlooking it because it’s a dumb way to get ahead of the PR hit if the state or the plaintiffs had released an article featuring the same information.
  - actually_a_dog 5y ago
    I don't even get where you're coming from here. You seem determined to be hostile for the sake of being hostile.
    - vmception 5y ago
      Try to think of it from the African American plaintiff view and anyone that has a confirmation they would encounter a worse experience for baseless reasons. The plaintiffs sued in Oregon, and got a settlement. They only going to travel to Oregon? Many jurisdictions, including the federal government have similar laws. The challenge of the law itself never reached a judicial conclusion, so if AirBnB was willing to settle there, it was either because they thought it was a pretty solid law, or they made a cost benefit analysis to settle. If the latter, then the same is true other places. But instead they are making a harder business decision to resist changing anything, just to spin it as being an ally to marginalized customers. This is a puff piece for a technology that AirBnB could roll out anywhere randomly across any population for the A/B test. Its harder for them to geofence this, harder for them to spin this, as opposed to just doing the normal software rollout strategy. So that’s why. Think about it from the affected plaintiff or customers perspective. Yes, sure, potentially roll it out after this “experiment”. But this is yet another example of why representation matters. This wouldn’t have even gotten greenlit this way if there were more decision makers familiar with this segment of the population by living it.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  I’m generally pro-AirBnB, but I have a pretty negative feeling that they’re pitching “we’re complying with a geo-fenced voluntary settlement agreement” as “hey, this is an experiment that we might roll out elsewhere”. I’d believe they cared about this as an experiment to drive greater equal treatment in their platform if they complied with this agreement (and shut up about that) AND rolled out that same code someplace else, treated that as an experiment, and talked about that. (I do see “hey, we have to do this anyway, so we might as well look at the data and see what outcomes it drives” as an inherently positive company action. I think the messaging around it as “we’re totally doing this as an experiment” while omitting the settlement agreement feels shady to me [to the point of it being an unforced error, albeit a minor one relative to the scale of the company])
  - Quarrelsome 5y ago
    ye but right thing wrong reasons is still right thing. I think its fine.
- fivea 5y ago
  > I think you are overlooking the word "experiment." Is the so-called "experiment" focused exclusively on a jurisdiction that enforces those rules? A/B testing tends to be randomized per session or per user or per marketplace, not per jurisdiction and specially only on those where AirBNB already lost lawsuits and thus has to face a precedent. Also, is Oregon the hotbed of racism and discrimination in the US rental market?
  - vmception 5y ago
    Regarding Oregon, one of the various criticisms of the place is that people act inclusive on ethnic diversity but have never been challenged on it as the population isn't there. So the way it would actually materialize is always up for skepticism, debate and question. According to Oregon government: Among people living in Oregon in 2016, 76% identified as white, 13% Latina(o), 5% Asian and Pacific Islander, 2% African American, 1% American Indian and Alaska Native, and 3% two or more races. And then that is further bolstered by the original point of Oregon to begin with. The territory and state was founded on extremely exclusionary and unambiguously racist principles, specifically against black people setting foot in its borders, and that can always be used to undermine how convincing its progressive rebranding is. Simple because its so meme-worthy how hard they are trying, without ever being confronted with a circumstance to put it into action. It also stands to reason that there are people, families, dynasties, that harbor the continuous exclusionist ideals of Oregon, from its inception.
    - fivea 5y ago
      My question is whether Oregon was a hotbed of racism and discrimination within the US, not if the are racist people living in Oregon. The point being, if the company was honestly concerned about racial discrimination, wouldn't it run this sort of experiment in problematic, high-impact regions? I mean, would it make any sense to fight discrimination against Eskimos in Florida?
      - vmception 5y ago
        Sure okay good point and I don't have the data on Oregon’s recent/current positioning in this.

actually_a_dog 5y ago

I think you are overlooking the word "experiment." I would expect this to be rolled out more extensively if the experiment were successful.

vmception 5y ago
I’m overlooking it because it’s a dumb way to get ahead of the PR hit if the state or the plaintiffs had released an article featuring the same information.
- actually_a_dog 5y ago
  I don't even get where you're coming from here. You seem determined to be hostile for the sake of being hostile.
  - vmception 5y ago
    Try to think of it from the African American plaintiff view and anyone that has a confirmation they would encounter a worse experience for baseless reasons. The plaintiffs sued in Oregon, and got a settlement. They only going to travel to Oregon? Many jurisdictions, including the federal government have similar laws. The challenge of the law itself never reached a judicial conclusion, so if AirBnB was willing to settle there, it was either because they thought it was a pretty solid law, or they made a cost benefit analysis to settle. If the latter, then the same is true other places. But instead they are making a harder business decision to resist changing anything, just to spin it as being an ally to marginalized customers. This is a puff piece for a technology that AirBnB could roll out anywhere randomly across any population for the A/B test. Its harder for them to geofence this, harder for them to spin this, as opposed to just doing the normal software rollout strategy. So that’s why. Think about it from the affected plaintiff or customers perspective. Yes, sure, potentially roll it out after this “experiment”. But this is yet another example of why representation matters. This wouldn’t have even gotten greenlit this way if there were more decision makers familiar with this segment of the population by living it.
sokoloff 5y ago
I’m generally pro-AirBnB, but I have a pretty negative feeling that they’re pitching “we’re complying with a geo-fenced voluntary settlement agreement” as “hey, this is an experiment that we might roll out elsewhere”. I’d believe they cared about this as an experiment to drive greater equal treatment in their platform if they complied with this agreement (and shut up about that) AND rolled out that same code someplace else, treated that as an experiment, and talked about that. (I do see “hey, we have to do this anyway, so we might as well look at the data and see what outcomes it drives” as an inherently positive company action. I think the messaging around it as “we’re totally doing this as an experiment” while omitting the settlement agreement feels shady to me [to the point of it being an unforced error, albeit a minor one relative to the scale of the company])
- Quarrelsome 5y ago
  ye but right thing wrong reasons is still right thing. I think its fine.
fivea 5y ago
> I think you are overlooking the word "experiment." Is the so-called "experiment" focused exclusively on a jurisdiction that enforces those rules? A/B testing tends to be randomized per session or per user or per marketplace, not per jurisdiction and specially only on those where AirBNB already lost lawsuits and thus has to face a precedent. Also, is Oregon the hotbed of racism and discrimination in the US rental market?
- vmception 5y ago
  Regarding Oregon, one of the various criticisms of the place is that people act inclusive on ethnic diversity but have never been challenged on it as the population isn't there. So the way it would actually materialize is always up for skepticism, debate and question. According to Oregon government: Among people living in Oregon in 2016, 76% identified as white, 13% Latina(o), 5% Asian and Pacific Islander, 2% African American, 1% American Indian and Alaska Native, and 3% two or more races. And then that is further bolstered by the original point of Oregon to begin with. The territory and state was founded on extremely exclusionary and unambiguously racist principles, specifically against black people setting foot in its borders, and that can always be used to undermine how convincing its progressive rebranding is. Simple because its so meme-worthy how hard they are trying, without ever being confronted with a circumstance to put it into action. It also stands to reason that there are people, families, dynasties, that harbor the continuous exclusionist ideals of Oregon, from its inception.
  - fivea 5y ago
    My question is whether Oregon was a hotbed of racism and discrimination within the US, not if the are racist people living in Oregon. The point being, if the company was honestly concerned about racial discrimination, wouldn't it run this sort of experiment in problematic, high-impact regions? I mean, would it make any sense to fight discrimination against Eskimos in Florida?
    - vmception 5y ago
      Sure okay good point and I don't have the data on Oregon’s recent/current positioning in this.