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> It's a repeat of the MS-IE escapades of a few decades ago but everyone's OK with it. Is it though? Safari seems to be pretty close to the HTML standard and a

by lwkl 5y ago

> It's a repeat of the MS-IE escapades of a few decades ago but everyone's OK with it. Is it though? Safari seems to be pretty close to the HTML standard and at least not implement any proprietary features. Sure there may be bugs or they may lag behind but they are making an effort to be compliant. I'd say Google seems to be the one leading a lot of decisions regarding to standards and implement them the way they want before they are actually standardizes and because they have the biggest market share Apple and Firefox just have to follow their decision. Ideally Apple would allow third party browsers on iOS, but I think it's beneficial for users that they don't. I do believe that without it Chrome would have a much bigger market share and developers wouldn't be forced to support browsers other than Chrome and Google would have even more power over web standards than today. I guess Chromium being open source would make it a bit better.

dathinab 5y ago
For developers Safari is like IE in the past. - Missing features, supper buggy to a absurd point where you need to wonder if Apple isn't intentionally crippling it. But hey, because some many people in management use it companies tend to work around all this bugs spending millions on it. For users Chrome is like IE in the past. - Having all kind of new features no one else has and people developing sites which only work for it correctly. Still that has little to with the original comment. I mean how is Apple outright banning competition (for example like Steam) from a marked coverying hundreds of million of people not a massive abuse of power which needs to be stopped for all the same reasons a monopoly is bad. To just name one point (((there are other like absurd cuts for something which is just a payment service (in-app payments after paying for an app), often abusive/absurd behaviour on publishing apps, stiffing innovation (if not made/controlled by them), intentionally hindering repeatability and repair-ability regulation, including creation of an repair program where they pretend to help but actually just make sure you can't provide a proper repair service under it (let's see what will happen with the more recently announced program), intentionally vendor lock-in for developer all through their eco-system, surprisingly bad software quality for many parts facing developers at least parts which are not iOs, a whole bunch of subtle things which forces people to write apps instead of e.g. just providing a website or similar service, etc. etc. etc.))) Oh did I forgot to mention how they use the marked power to push down the prices of suppliers that they basically only can make profit by employing bs. like inhuman working conditions or resources mined with child labor and similar and then pretending it's not their problem because they also forced the supplier to sign a contract that they don't do that. Just because it's "per definition" not a monopoly doesn't mean it hasn't the same bad effects and other equally bad, not monopoly specific effect. Also tbh. the problem with Safari isn't that it's slow in adapting standards Google forces through. The problem is that it's complete unreasonable buggy including on many old features with absurd bugs sometimes, and that they also lack behind on features which widely agreed to not "have been forcefully pushed through by google", like WASM. Often they support this things on paper but so buggy that it's unusable/very expensive to support them. And guess what most of this problems are focused on more "web appish" features instead of classical "web siteish" features, but that is surely a coincidence that this greatly benefits them by forcing people into the app store.
heavyset_go 5y ago
Safari on macOS and iOS didn't even support WebP until the latter half of 2020. > Ideally Apple would allow third party browsers on iOS, but I think it's beneficial for users that they don't. Lack of competition is always a bad thing for users.

by lwkl 5y ago

dathinab 5y ago

For developers Safari is like IE in the past. - Missing features, supper buggy to a absurd point where you need to wonder if Apple isn't intentionally crippling it. But hey, because some many people in management use it companies tend to work around all this bugs spending millions on it. For users Chrome is like IE in the past. - Having all kind of new features no one else has and people developing sites which only work for it correctly. Still that has little to with the original comment. I mean how is Apple outright banning competition (for example like Steam) from a marked coverying hundreds of million of people not a massive abuse of power which needs to be stopped for all the same reasons a monopoly is bad. To just name one point (((there are other like absurd cuts for something which is just a payment service (in-app payments after paying for an app), often abusive/absurd behaviour on publishing apps, stiffing innovation (if not made/controlled by them), intentionally hindering repeatability and repair-ability regulation, including creation of an repair program where they pretend to help but actually just make sure you can't provide a proper repair service under it (let's see what will happen with the more recently announced program), intentionally vendor lock-in for developer all through their eco-system, surprisingly bad software quality for many parts facing developers at least parts which are not iOs, a whole bunch of subtle things which forces people to write apps instead of e.g. just providing a website or similar service, etc. etc. etc.))) Oh did I forgot to mention how they use the marked power to push down the prices of suppliers that they basically only can make profit by employing bs. like inhuman working conditions or resources mined with child labor and similar and then pretending it's not their problem because they also forced the supplier to sign a contract that they don't do that. Just because it's "per definition" not a monopoly doesn't mean it hasn't the same bad effects and other equally bad, not monopoly specific effect. Also tbh. the problem with Safari isn't that it's slow in adapting standards Google forces through. The problem is that it's complete unreasonable buggy including on many old features with absurd bugs sometimes, and that they also lack behind on features which widely agreed to not "have been forcefully pushed through by google", like WASM. Often they support this things on paper but so buggy that it's unusable/very expensive to support them. And guess what most of this problems are focused on more "web appish" features instead of classical "web siteish" features, but that is surely a coincidence that this greatly benefits them by forcing people into the app store.

heavyset_go 5y ago

Safari on macOS and iOS didn't even support WebP until the latter half of 2020. > Ideally Apple would allow third party browsers on iOS, but I think it's beneficial for users that they don't. Lack of competition is always a bad thing for users.