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At least Framework placed the Power button NOT in the keyboard top-right corner (oh don't let me start on this). But all other keys... does nobody ever uses Ho

At least Framework placed the Power button NOT in the keyboard top-right corner (oh don't let me start on this). But all other keys... does nobody ever uses Home/End/PgUp/PgDown/Insert/ContextMenu keys these days? <rant> Ask HN: Nobody ever uses Home/End/PgUp/PgDown/Insert/ContextMenu keys these days? I understand what the current laptop keyboard layouts are made by alien^W someone who is clearly not using the computer as a work tool, but we are close to a decade of this ...nonsense. All Fn+ keys REQUIRE using both hands. It is all fine until you are somewhere where you need to use one hand to hold your notebook and ... you can no longer press any Fn+ combo. I have a pretty big hands and I can't stretch my fingers enough to reach both bottom-left Fn and any key on the right side of keyboard. On a 14" laptop. Which could had all the keys (compare X220 and T440 for example) but it doesn't. Thinkpads are still have PrtScr on ContextMenu, which means I would 100% lose contents of the clipboard some hours later. Who needs PrtScr /there/ anyway? I want to hear the reasoning, like "we noticed (through our telemetry? how?) what our users are making screenshots all the day so we moved the PrtScr in the place of ContextMenu button"? You can replace the Space with PrtScr then, it would be pressed even more. 16" notebook? You will still have a sub 12" keyboard on it [0] 14" notebook? You won't even have the chance to see it's keyboard - you can see photo of it's back (like this is somehow important in the age where is nothing on a laptop back) but you can't see it's keyboard. </rant> [0] https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx1/x1-extreme-g4/22tp2x1x1e4 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx1/x... [1] https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx1/x1-carbon-gen9/22tp2x1x1c9 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx1/x...

lproven 5y ago
Agreed. So very much agreed. I do informal surveys of new laptops -- I wander around computer shops bashing out a sentence or two into Notepad or TextEdit. They're all awful now. But most people are used to awful and so don't care. Layouts suck too but that, to me, is secondary to key feel. If the layout is bad, some keystrokes will be bad; but if the key feel is bad, every keystroke will be bad.
- bitwize 5y ago
  > I do informal surveys of new laptops -- I wander around computer shops bashing out a sentence or two into Notepad or TextEdit. I do this as well but I type in hello world in C. It helps me get a feel for what the keyboard is going to be like while programming. Most are atrocious, but not as bad as rubber-dome desktop KBs.
maratc 5y ago
You may want to consider a Mac. Most of its software doesn't use any Fn+ combos, or Home/End/PgUp/PgDown/Insert/ContextMenu keys. They have other shortcuts. It's a pain to learn them in the beginning, but in the long term it gives you an idea that maybe having many single-purpose keys on a laptop keyboard is not a best idea, ergonomically.
- justsomehnguy 5y ago
  Sorry but I do use navigation keys when writing text or code. > They have other shortcuts Thanks, I prefer two dedicated hardware keys to delete text, instead of one and Fn+Delete.

lproven 5y ago

Agreed. So very much agreed. I do informal surveys of new laptops -- I wander around computer shops bashing out a sentence or two into Notepad or TextEdit. They're all awful now. But most people are used to awful and so don't care. Layouts suck too but that, to me, is secondary to key feel. If the layout is bad, some keystrokes will be bad; but if the key feel is bad, every keystroke will be bad.

bitwize 5y ago
> I do informal surveys of new laptops -- I wander around computer shops bashing out a sentence or two into Notepad or TextEdit. I do this as well but I type in hello world in C. It helps me get a feel for what the keyboard is going to be like while programming. Most are atrocious, but not as bad as rubber-dome desktop KBs.

maratc 5y ago

You may want to consider a Mac. Most of its software doesn't use any Fn+ combos, or Home/End/PgUp/PgDown/Insert/ContextMenu keys. They have other shortcuts. It's a pain to learn them in the beginning, but in the long term it gives you an idea that maybe having many single-purpose keys on a laptop keyboard is not a best idea, ergonomically.

justsomehnguy 5y ago
Sorry but I do use navigation keys when writing text or code. > They have other shortcuts Thanks, I prefer two dedicated hardware keys to delete text, instead of one and Fn+Delete.