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Quote: "If you need to do native iOS or macOS development then a MacBook is your obvious choice." No, it's not. I do cross-platform development for over a deca

Quote: "If you need to do native iOS or macOS development then a MacBook is your obvious choice." No, it's not. I do cross-platform development for over a decade now and all I have are virtual machines. Over 2 dozens of them and I never owned any Apple hardware. Why pay for overpriced hardware when virtualization covers everything for a 100th of the price?

marcellus23 5y ago
Developing natively for iOS without testing on any iOS devices sounds like a shortcut to making mediocre iOS apps.
Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
If I remember correctly, Apple's EULA prohibits users from running virtualized macOS on a non-Apple hardware.
- unnouinceput 5y ago
  Except I am not an user, I'm a developer, hence no EULA infringement. You might want to take a second look at their EULA for their Apple developer ID and you'll see that for those $100/year they sing a very different song. Money talks!
  - tpush 5y ago
    No, it's still prohibited. From Apple's terms for devs[0]: "You agree not to install, use or run the Apple SDKs on any non-Apple-branded computer, and not to install, use or run iOS, watchOS, tvOS, iPadOS, macOS and Provisioning Profiles on or in connection with devices other than Apple-branded products, or to enable others to do so." [0] https://developer.apple.com/support/downloads/terms/apple-developer-program/Apple-Developer-Program-License-Agreement-20211213-English.pdf https://developer.apple.com/support/downloads/terms/apple-de...
  - microtonal 5y ago
    Except I am not an user, I'm a developer, hence no EULA infringement. IANAL, but it doesn't work like that. Like any original creative work, macOS falls under copyright protection. Apple only gives you a licenses you to copy/run macOS on Apple-branded hardware. You might want to take a second look at their EULA for their Apple developer ID I don't see anything in the Apple Developer Agreement that would cancel the terms of the macOS EULA. But I'd love to be proven wrong, please give me a pointer. you'll see that for those $100/year they sing a very different song. Money talks! $100/year is less than pocket change for Apple. Even if they have a million paying developers (unlikely), it's ~1/3658th of their yearly revenue. If they'd make their iPhones 50 cents more expensive, they would make more money. The $100 per year is only there as one of the many ways to fight scammers. It makes it more costly to open many accounts, they have a credit card (with a name) on file, etc. Sure, it is not air tight, but it is just one of many measures.
Kletiomdm 5y ago
Honestly I think you should be able to test stuff in real world scenarios if possible. I would never do iOS development seriously without native devices. Virtualization brings you far, true, but it's still different. I would even create a hardware lap if I would do end-user device Software development. And the quote is still true. If you do iOS MacOS development it IS the obvious choice obviously. Yours might be cheaper and might have other advantages but it is NOT obvious.

marcellus23 5y ago

Developing natively for iOS without testing on any iOS devices sounds like a shortcut to making mediocre iOS apps.

Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago

If I remember correctly, Apple's EULA prohibits users from running virtualized macOS on a non-Apple hardware.

unnouinceput 5y ago
Except I am not an user, I'm a developer, hence no EULA infringement. You might want to take a second look at their EULA for their Apple developer ID and you'll see that for those $100/year they sing a very different song. Money talks!
- tpush 5y ago
  No, it's still prohibited. From Apple's terms for devs[0]: "You agree not to install, use or run the Apple SDKs on any non-Apple-branded computer, and not to install, use or run iOS, watchOS, tvOS, iPadOS, macOS and Provisioning Profiles on or in connection with devices other than Apple-branded products, or to enable others to do so." [0] https://developer.apple.com/support/downloads/terms/apple-developer-program/Apple-Developer-Program-License-Agreement-20211213-English.pdf https://developer.apple.com/support/downloads/terms/apple-de...
- microtonal 5y ago
  Except I am not an user, I'm a developer, hence no EULA infringement. IANAL, but it doesn't work like that. Like any original creative work, macOS falls under copyright protection. Apple only gives you a licenses you to copy/run macOS on Apple-branded hardware. You might want to take a second look at their EULA for their Apple developer ID I don't see anything in the Apple Developer Agreement that would cancel the terms of the macOS EULA. But I'd love to be proven wrong, please give me a pointer. you'll see that for those $100/year they sing a very different song. Money talks! $100/year is less than pocket change for Apple. Even if they have a million paying developers (unlikely), it's ~1/3658th of their yearly revenue. If they'd make their iPhones 50 cents more expensive, they would make more money. The $100 per year is only there as one of the many ways to fight scammers. It makes it more costly to open many accounts, they have a credit card (with a name) on file, etc. Sure, it is not air tight, but it is just one of many measures.

Kletiomdm 5y ago

Honestly I think you should be able to test stuff in real world scenarios if possible. I would never do iOS development seriously without native devices. Virtualization brings you far, true, but it's still different. I would even create a hardware lap if I would do end-user device Software development. And the quote is still true. If you do iOS MacOS development it IS the obvious choice obviously. Yours might be cheaper and might have other advantages but it is NOT obvious.