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Please consider that software engineering is one of the highest paying jobs one can get, bar a very select few. And most of those jobs require gruelling educati

Please consider that software engineering is one of the highest paying jobs one can get, bar a very select few. And most of those jobs require gruelling education or can't be performed from the comfort of one's home. And also take into account that there are tons of jobs, which still require insane amount of studying and the ability to solve very difficult problems - all non-software engineering positions come to mind - while still paying less than software. The amazing thing about SW is you can get a job - and even some of the best ones - without any formal education. So even if you don't agree that the ability to solve Leetcode problems is predictive how good an engineer is - just power through it. And keep in mind that, for example, Electrical Engineers have to know tons of difficult math, physics, circuit theory, analog and digital design - and yes - even programming, where the acquisition of these skills is just as hard as getting decent at Leetcode - just to make a fraction on what you make.

vsareto 5y ago
>Please consider that software engineering is one of the highest paying jobs one can get, bar a very select few Managers of those engineers can make more plus they don't have to do technical interviews
nefitty 5y ago
No. I provide value to companies by solving their business problems, not by memorizing completely trivial puzzles. I resent the implication that we should beg to be paid what we're worth and be grateful to be made to do a jig in a tutu for scraps that fall off the table.
odiroot 5y ago
> Please consider that software engineering is one of the highest paying jobs one can get, bar a very select few. In the US of A. In continental Europe this is just an office job. Maybe you can consider it an upper-middle class job if you're senior enough.
- mrweasel 5y ago
  Exactly, being a developer or in IT in general pays well enough, but it doesn't compare to SV saleries. I've seen people here on HN complain about salaries we would only pay to the CTO or higher.
vmception 5y ago
Plebian logic. Pay is not related to effort, pay is related to value provided. Its not an insult, comparative effort is a way many people think at the bottom out of necessity to focus and escape, people at the top gaslight people into thinking this way to retain all the value.
- jollybean 5y ago
  It's also 'plebian' to suggest that effort and value provided are not hugely correlated. Tiger Woods started training at age two, and spent his entire childhood training hard, consistently, repetitively, nauseatingly. It takes monumental 'raw effort' to get into a good law firm and to work your way up. But the partners, even though they don't have to do a lot of the grunt work, are not slouching. They are busy to the point where it can even take over their lives: social aspect of their lives blend with business. Imagine your ski vacation becomes 'work' because it's with the clients. Etc..
  - vmception 5y ago
    This is a discussion about hiring practices being under scrutiny because people are forcing an unnecessary kind of screen into them that doesn’t help a company. This process lacks inspiration. Even following a company’s “false positives are worse than false negatives so we don’t care that experienced people can’t pass” logic, leetcoding doesn’t help with that. So a third unknown process needs to be done instead. The simple reality is that there is alot to build, in this sector. People can slave away preparing themselves for a lower paying job with higher requirements, and that has nothing to do with whether this sector pays alot now or 10x more in the future. The market is saying what to do. Hiring practices are hampering the market efficiency. Full stop.
  - ZephyrBlu 5y ago
    > It's also 'plebian' to suggest that effort and value provided are not hugely correlated I think it's a weak correlation at best. A single data point (Tiger Woods) doesn't constitute a correlation. People working manual labour jobs put in a lot of effort, but they create comparatively little value. I suspect that leverage and value are highly correlated. If you have more leverage, you're probably going to create more value.

vsareto 5y ago

>Please consider that software engineering is one of the highest paying jobs one can get, bar a very select few Managers of those engineers can make more plus they don't have to do technical interviews

nefitty 5y ago

No. I provide value to companies by solving their business problems, not by memorizing completely trivial puzzles. I resent the implication that we should beg to be paid what we're worth and be grateful to be made to do a jig in a tutu for scraps that fall off the table.

odiroot 5y ago

> Please consider that software engineering is one of the highest paying jobs one can get, bar a very select few. In the US of A. In continental Europe this is just an office job. Maybe you can consider it an upper-middle class job if you're senior enough.

mrweasel 5y ago
Exactly, being a developer or in IT in general pays well enough, but it doesn't compare to SV saleries. I've seen people here on HN complain about salaries we would only pay to the CTO or higher.

vmception 5y ago

Plebian logic. Pay is not related to effort, pay is related to value provided. Its not an insult, comparative effort is a way many people think at the bottom out of necessity to focus and escape, people at the top gaslight people into thinking this way to retain all the value.

jollybean 5y ago
It's also 'plebian' to suggest that effort and value provided are not hugely correlated. Tiger Woods started training at age two, and spent his entire childhood training hard, consistently, repetitively, nauseatingly. It takes monumental 'raw effort' to get into a good law firm and to work your way up. But the partners, even though they don't have to do a lot of the grunt work, are not slouching. They are busy to the point where it can even take over their lives: social aspect of their lives blend with business. Imagine your ski vacation becomes 'work' because it's with the clients. Etc..
- vmception 5y ago
  This is a discussion about hiring practices being under scrutiny because people are forcing an unnecessary kind of screen into them that doesn’t help a company. This process lacks inspiration. Even following a company’s “false positives are worse than false negatives so we don’t care that experienced people can’t pass” logic, leetcoding doesn’t help with that. So a third unknown process needs to be done instead. The simple reality is that there is alot to build, in this sector. People can slave away preparing themselves for a lower paying job with higher requirements, and that has nothing to do with whether this sector pays alot now or 10x more in the future. The market is saying what to do. Hiring practices are hampering the market efficiency. Full stop.
- ZephyrBlu 5y ago
  > It's also 'plebian' to suggest that effort and value provided are not hugely correlated I think it's a weak correlation at best. A single data point (Tiger Woods) doesn't constitute a correlation. People working manual labour jobs put in a lot of effort, but they create comparatively little value. I suspect that leverage and value are highly correlated. If you have more leverage, you're probably going to create more value.