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Thank you for this comment, it's incredibly true. Some elementary school teachers I know (in Europe) repeatedly remind me how important non-academic elements a

Thank you for this comment, it's incredibly true. Some elementary school teachers I know (in Europe) repeatedly remind me how important non-academic elements are in school. * Kids go to school to get emotional care. * Kids go to school to get attention, and someone to listen. * Kids go to school to learn social behavior. * Kids go to school to have a surrogate mommy to care for them while parents work. * Kids go to school to learn (from teachers or peers) how to tie shoe laces, wipe your nose, go to the bathroom and so on. In first and second grade, all of this makes up more than 50% of what kids actually learn, and this is what they are missing completely in home schooling.

watwut 5y ago
I kinda hope they go to bathroom at home too. I agree it is better for kids to be in school then not, but lets not pretend there is no basic learning going on at home.
- uniqueuid 5y ago
  Haha sure! What I implied is: There are many things we need to learn about life in public spaces, including trivial things such as: What is a stall, where is the toilet paper, how do other people behave, what's the etiquette etc etc. Much of this is completely non-evident to small kids, because behavior at home is (naturally) so different.
  - ianai 5y ago
    That could be taught at the public library.
    - uniqueuid 5y ago
      Only if that involves watching people, since much of what kids learn is subconscious and sub-vocal. I.e. they learn many things we don't know they learn, and don't know exist, because we are taking them for granted all the time.
ianai 5y ago
Wow that’s absolutely not what public school was like for me. It was brutality left right and center. My first grade teacher put me in “remedial class” after she “caught” me being able to read upside down and backwards. She was across the room at the time. Then there’s all the bullying on the playground - including being knocked out unconscious the first time I actually stood up to a bully. The school punished us both with the exact same punishment. I swore. He probably did brain damage to me. Etc etc. In short, this concept that school actually has benefits is pretty alien to my lived reality.
- Foobar8568 5y ago
  First week ever of school, my daughter was bitten to almost bleeding. Some kids (both 4yo) tried to kiss her on her mouth, she pushed him away. This year (7-8yo), one sexually harassed her, school did shit, so she is homeschooling now. I won't say more but many other things, including a crazy teacher humiliating kids as punishment (in a nutshell, asking the classmates to laugh at the kid), only listening to bullies etc. If this is the so called socialization, fuck school. And we are in a supposedly a good town in Switzerland.
  - ianai 5y ago
    One of my first bullies (around 7-9 yo, I think?) was my “best friend” at the time. As an adult I suspect he just singled me out and I wouldn’t have known any better. Social pressure may have contributed there too. He would grow his fingernails out, sharpen them to points, and dig them into my hands until I bled on the playground. I vehemently support homeschool. The homeschooled adults I met in both college and in professional work are some of the best able to actually deal with reality. They’re not perfect and can be downright unaware, but that’s going to be true of anything. The bullying out there overrides any benefits.
- uniqueuid 5y ago
  I'm deeply sorry that school was so horrible for you. I can also tell you that in contemporary affluent european regions, my rosy version of the story is common. It's of course an enlightment-style utopia, but even if reality often was and is different, I'm very convinced that this is what we should strive for. There are different stances towards educating children, of course, but this one (and its versions) is arguably the humane one.
zaphar 5y ago
This is depressing. Like really really depressing. I was homeschooled, albeit not in the pandemic form and I got all of that from my parents. I can't even express how much more grateful your comment makes me that my mom sacrificed what she did to ensure I didn't have to get all of the above from school.

watwut 5y ago

I kinda hope they go to bathroom at home too. I agree it is better for kids to be in school then not, but lets not pretend there is no basic learning going on at home.

uniqueuid 5y ago
Haha sure! What I implied is: There are many things we need to learn about life in public spaces, including trivial things such as: What is a stall, where is the toilet paper, how do other people behave, what's the etiquette etc etc. Much of this is completely non-evident to small kids, because behavior at home is (naturally) so different.
- ianai 5y ago
  That could be taught at the public library.
  - uniqueuid 5y ago
    Only if that involves watching people, since much of what kids learn is subconscious and sub-vocal. I.e. they learn many things we don't know they learn, and don't know exist, because we are taking them for granted all the time.

ianai 5y ago

Wow that’s absolutely not what public school was like for me. It was brutality left right and center. My first grade teacher put me in “remedial class” after she “caught” me being able to read upside down and backwards. She was across the room at the time. Then there’s all the bullying on the playground - including being knocked out unconscious the first time I actually stood up to a bully. The school punished us both with the exact same punishment. I swore. He probably did brain damage to me. Etc etc. In short, this concept that school actually has benefits is pretty alien to my lived reality.

Foobar8568 5y ago
First week ever of school, my daughter was bitten to almost bleeding. Some kids (both 4yo) tried to kiss her on her mouth, she pushed him away. This year (7-8yo), one sexually harassed her, school did shit, so she is homeschooling now. I won't say more but many other things, including a crazy teacher humiliating kids as punishment (in a nutshell, asking the classmates to laugh at the kid), only listening to bullies etc. If this is the so called socialization, fuck school. And we are in a supposedly a good town in Switzerland.
- ianai 5y ago
  One of my first bullies (around 7-9 yo, I think?) was my “best friend” at the time. As an adult I suspect he just singled me out and I wouldn’t have known any better. Social pressure may have contributed there too. He would grow his fingernails out, sharpen them to points, and dig them into my hands until I bled on the playground. I vehemently support homeschool. The homeschooled adults I met in both college and in professional work are some of the best able to actually deal with reality. They’re not perfect and can be downright unaware, but that’s going to be true of anything. The bullying out there overrides any benefits.
uniqueuid 5y ago
I'm deeply sorry that school was so horrible for you. I can also tell you that in contemporary affluent european regions, my rosy version of the story is common. It's of course an enlightment-style utopia, but even if reality often was and is different, I'm very convinced that this is what we should strive for. There are different stances towards educating children, of course, but this one (and its versions) is arguably the humane one.

zaphar 5y ago

This is depressing. Like really really depressing. I was homeschooled, albeit not in the pandemic form and I got all of that from my parents. I can't even express how much more grateful your comment makes me that my mom sacrificed what she did to ensure I didn't have to get all of the above from school.