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None of those are in the same “likelihood of death to a person who has common sense” risk category as the high-voltage Mercedes front compartment. See also the

None of those are in the same “likelihood of death to a person who has common sense” risk category as the high-voltage Mercedes front compartment. See also the various other replies along these lines, such as: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29801119 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29801119 Another way to look at this is, “are there any consumer-serviceable parts within the compartment?” and “are there instantly-fatal wires/terminals within the compartment?”. The pair of answers “no” and “yes” for the Mercedes demand a wholly different approach to risk management and safety design than a gas engine, whose pair of answers are “yes” and “no”. EV high-voltage are not consumer-serviceable, as a regular consumer cannot be expected to understand high-voltage safety practices. Yes, some consumers know how to service them, but the necessary safety practices that are generally commonly understood for gas engines are not commonly understood for electric engines, and are regulated differently as a result.

mindslight 5y ago
"Consumer-serviceable parts" is such a stupid term. There are actually no parts that are "consumer serviceable", because a "consumer" is an abstract fiction that is only capable of continually buying new off-the-shelf junk. In reality, these devices are owned by people, most of them quite capable of replacing parts, especially when they're not being infantilized. The main thing that has changed between traditional cars and EVs are the times. The specific hazards are different and some amount of warning is justified, but plastering something with useless signs that just attempt to discourage without describing the actual hazards should create the same legal situation as having no warnings at all.
- floatingatoll 5y ago
  Please forgive the insult of my choice of wording — I made up a phrase on the spot and it is clearly unacceptable. I’m sorry. In any case, we disagree, so I won’t try to offer a replacement as the intent of my viewpoint has already been conveyed adequately.
  - mindslight 5y ago
    I didn't mean to pick on you directly, but the wider consumer-serviceable / user-serviceable meme. I've seen far too many labels asserting such nonsense.
sudosysgen 5y ago
That's stupid. If you're assuming common sense, common sense is to not cut open thick cables without ensuring they're disconnected. It's just as much common sense as not working on your car with it's engine on. "Consumer-serviceable" parts don't exist. That being said, yes, you may want to replace the HEPA filter, or any other parts in the ventilation system, for example. High voltage safety pracitces are simple in this case. Is the battery completely disconnected from the rest of the car? Yes? Then it's safe. No? Then the car is on, and it's not safe, just like any vehicle. If Mercedes don't make available a way to ensure the main battery is disconnected and no high-voltage circuit is energized, that's on them, and they are 100% in the wrong. Otherwise, there is an easy, common-sense way to make all of this safe for your average Bozo to work on. And by the way, this is a much higher standard than the one we use today. I can happily go an kill myself by fucking up my brake system. No one will stop me. Why is this off-limits, then?
londons_explore 5y ago
> None of those are in the same “likelihood of death to a person who has common sense” risk category as the high-voltage High voltage in cars is actually very safe. The car constantly checks for leakage current and switches off if any is seen. That means you could cut through a high voltage cable while driving with uninsulated pliers and survive. Warning:. Many of these safety systems are single-use explosives. After doing this, the repair will be expensive...
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Indeed. You don't want to rely on these, though, and it is a design failure if the manufacturer doesn't make available a way to safely disconnect the HV systems to the user.

mindslight 5y ago

"Consumer-serviceable parts" is such a stupid term. There are actually no parts that are "consumer serviceable", because a "consumer" is an abstract fiction that is only capable of continually buying new off-the-shelf junk. In reality, these devices are owned by people, most of them quite capable of replacing parts, especially when they're not being infantilized. The main thing that has changed between traditional cars and EVs are the times. The specific hazards are different and some amount of warning is justified, but plastering something with useless signs that just attempt to discourage without describing the actual hazards should create the same legal situation as having no warnings at all.

floatingatoll 5y ago
Please forgive the insult of my choice of wording — I made up a phrase on the spot and it is clearly unacceptable. I’m sorry. In any case, we disagree, so I won’t try to offer a replacement as the intent of my viewpoint has already been conveyed adequately.
- mindslight 5y ago
  I didn't mean to pick on you directly, but the wider consumer-serviceable / user-serviceable meme. I've seen far too many labels asserting such nonsense.

sudosysgen 5y ago

That's stupid. If you're assuming common sense, common sense is to not cut open thick cables without ensuring they're disconnected. It's just as much common sense as not working on your car with it's engine on. "Consumer-serviceable" parts don't exist. That being said, yes, you may want to replace the HEPA filter, or any other parts in the ventilation system, for example. High voltage safety pracitces are simple in this case. Is the battery completely disconnected from the rest of the car? Yes? Then it's safe. No? Then the car is on, and it's not safe, just like any vehicle. If Mercedes don't make available a way to ensure the main battery is disconnected and no high-voltage circuit is energized, that's on them, and they are 100% in the wrong. Otherwise, there is an easy, common-sense way to make all of this safe for your average Bozo to work on. And by the way, this is a much higher standard than the one we use today. I can happily go an kill myself by fucking up my brake system. No one will stop me. Why is this off-limits, then?

londons_explore 5y ago

> None of those are in the same “likelihood of death to a person who has common sense” risk category as the high-voltage High voltage in cars is actually very safe. The car constantly checks for leakage current and switches off if any is seen. That means you could cut through a high voltage cable while driving with uninsulated pliers and survive. Warning:. Many of these safety systems are single-use explosives. After doing this, the repair will be expensive...

sudosysgen 5y ago
Indeed. You don't want to rely on these, though, and it is a design failure if the manufacturer doesn't make available a way to safely disconnect the HV systems to the user.