5 ms·

You can say the opposite about the other side as well... Anything short of eradication (which is impossible) means nonstop lockdowns, masking, vaccine mandates

You can say the opposite about the other side as well... Anything short of eradication (which is impossible) means nonstop lockdowns, masking, vaccine mandates and making the unvaccinated pariahs. What I don't understand is why you would shut down schools and enforce silly unhelpful mask mandates on them when the science shows children do not spread the disease in any meaningful way and are not badly affected by it. This is the "blind" spot I see.

ModernMech 5y ago
Schools in my district are shut down because there aren’t enough substitute teachers to fill in for sick or retired faculty. The older ones are getting sick and dying, or quitting before they do. The younger ones don’t want to be paid $35k a year to be screamed at by parents for not teaching subjects the way parents want them to be taught. Browse /r/teachers some time. It used to be a sub full of teachers venting steam about their students and sharing helpful tips. These days it’s just one post after another about teachers who are fed up and either quitting or planning to quit. They are proposing a new subreddit to handle the influx of complaints. If your “stay open” analysis begins and ends with the immune system and virus response of the students, then your analysis is incomplete because you are missing a huge dynamic that is at play here.
- alisonkisk 5y ago
- galaxyLogic 5y ago
  Good point. Also flights are cancelled not because of a government mandate but because personnel to fly the planes are sick with Covid. It would be bad business to fly with a sick crew.
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  My mother was a teacher for 20+ years and my wife is a teacher. I know exactly how schools are handling this. They're quarantining people that aren't sick, that's why they don't have staff. They've scared away substitutes with unscientific fear mongering about super spreader events in school. This is a problem of over-testing and unnecessary quarantining not a shortage.
  - ModernMech 5y ago
    Just curious then, how does your wife's school handle the case of a faculty member dying of Covid and not being able to find a replacement or sub? Do they just put more work on everyone else? In my district, they replaced the history teacher with the music teacher because she died right before the holidays due to Covid (if you're wondering, the history teacher doesn't have a background in music). They manage this by siphoning teacher prep time, which means the history teacher is covering music instead of prepping for history class. What is your district's protocol? > They're quarantining people that aren't sick, that's why they don't have staff. Is your position that no one has been quarantined who legitimately needed to be? Or hospitalized? Or died? Or retired? It's 100% people who aren't sick being quarantined, and that's why schools don't have enough faculty and staff? > They've scared away substitutes with unscientific fear mongering about super spreader events in school. Coming from a family of teachers, I'm sure you're aware that many if not most substitute teachers are older, retired, and often have multiple comorbidities related to Covid. Some of them are immunocompromised and can't even get vaccinated. Couple this with the fact that many schools do not have vaccination, testing, or masking requirements. Do you think it's unreasonable for such people to not want to subject themselves to a school environment at this time? > This is a problem of over-testing and unnecessary quarantining not a shortage. I understand you think this is fear mongering and people being quarantined who are healthy, but at the same time people are also actually dying and being hospitalized with very severe illness. You can call it a problem of quarantining healthy people and over testing, but that doesn't relate to the fact that vacancies are being created by Covid, and they aren't being filled because people look at the shitshow that education has become with Qanon craziness infiltrating school boards, and the demonization that they are getting online (being called lazy and that they should all be fired) and they nope out real quick. Why bother? I don't see how lifting quarantine requirements and testing less makes things better for teachers. It doesn't make the field more attractive for new teachers. It doesn't help retention. It doesn't give kids a better environment for education. An alternative solution might be to impose a vaccination mandate, increase testing, better facilities with improved ventilation, and hazard pay for teachers along with a big freaking raise. But that seems to be a non starter. Instead we've chosen a path of disrespect, and that's actually a big component of this. Coming from a family of teachers, I'm sure you've heard this. Moreso than feeling afraid, teachers feel disrespected and disillusioned. They are ostensibly front-line essential workers, but they are called lazy, called unpatriotic, are underpaid, and overworked. There is a huge gap between the rhetoric/reality about how essential teachers are to managing this pandemic, and the attitudes and compensation they receive. Also, it's pretty condescending to suggest that this is all in teachers' heads, and they are just the victims of a fear mongering campaign. Stopping testing doesn't prevent teachers from being hospitalized or dying (and teachers are indeed dying). It also doesn't prevent their family members from being hospitalized or dying and teachers having to leave their jobs to take care of their family. It doesn't take many vacancies due to deaths or hospitalizations or retirements to completely throw a school into disarray -- especially considering the massive class sizes that many have to deal with. There's no extra slack other teachers can pick up. They are already stretched to the extreme when things are fully staffed.
galaxyLogic 5y ago
You make several strong claims in your post: 1. Shutting down schools does not help prevent the spread 2. Mask-mandates do not help (prevent the spread) 3. Science shows children don't spread the disease in any meaningful way 4. Children are not badly affected 5. Mask-mandates are "silly" Can you give us links to data that shows each of your five (5) claims to be correct?
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  https://adc.bmj.com/content/105/7/618 https://adc.bmj.com/content/105/7/618 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200710100934.h https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200710100934.h... https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32430964/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32430964/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32914746/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32914746/ https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jmv.26394 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jmv.26394 Yep and that's just a handful of easily found studies showing that children aren't in very low risk of COVID infecting them and/or causing any serious ailment. Therefore, the rest of your points are moot.

ModernMech 5y ago

Schools in my district are shut down because there aren’t enough substitute teachers to fill in for sick or retired faculty. The older ones are getting sick and dying, or quitting before they do. The younger ones don’t want to be paid $35k a year to be screamed at by parents for not teaching subjects the way parents want them to be taught. Browse /r/teachers some time. It used to be a sub full of teachers venting steam about their students and sharing helpful tips. These days it’s just one post after another about teachers who are fed up and either quitting or planning to quit. They are proposing a new subreddit to handle the influx of complaints. If your “stay open” analysis begins and ends with the immune system and virus response of the students, then your analysis is incomplete because you are missing a huge dynamic that is at play here.

alisonkisk 5y ago
galaxyLogic 5y ago
Good point. Also flights are cancelled not because of a government mandate but because personnel to fly the planes are sick with Covid. It would be bad business to fly with a sick crew.
CountDrewku 5y ago
My mother was a teacher for 20+ years and my wife is a teacher. I know exactly how schools are handling this. They're quarantining people that aren't sick, that's why they don't have staff. They've scared away substitutes with unscientific fear mongering about super spreader events in school. This is a problem of over-testing and unnecessary quarantining not a shortage.
- ModernMech 5y ago
  Just curious then, how does your wife's school handle the case of a faculty member dying of Covid and not being able to find a replacement or sub? Do they just put more work on everyone else? In my district, they replaced the history teacher with the music teacher because she died right before the holidays due to Covid (if you're wondering, the history teacher doesn't have a background in music). They manage this by siphoning teacher prep time, which means the history teacher is covering music instead of prepping for history class. What is your district's protocol? > They're quarantining people that aren't sick, that's why they don't have staff. Is your position that no one has been quarantined who legitimately needed to be? Or hospitalized? Or died? Or retired? It's 100% people who aren't sick being quarantined, and that's why schools don't have enough faculty and staff? > They've scared away substitutes with unscientific fear mongering about super spreader events in school. Coming from a family of teachers, I'm sure you're aware that many if not most substitute teachers are older, retired, and often have multiple comorbidities related to Covid. Some of them are immunocompromised and can't even get vaccinated. Couple this with the fact that many schools do not have vaccination, testing, or masking requirements. Do you think it's unreasonable for such people to not want to subject themselves to a school environment at this time? > This is a problem of over-testing and unnecessary quarantining not a shortage. I understand you think this is fear mongering and people being quarantined who are healthy, but at the same time people are also actually dying and being hospitalized with very severe illness. You can call it a problem of quarantining healthy people and over testing, but that doesn't relate to the fact that vacancies are being created by Covid, and they aren't being filled because people look at the shitshow that education has become with Qanon craziness infiltrating school boards, and the demonization that they are getting online (being called lazy and that they should all be fired) and they nope out real quick. Why bother? I don't see how lifting quarantine requirements and testing less makes things better for teachers. It doesn't make the field more attractive for new teachers. It doesn't help retention. It doesn't give kids a better environment for education. An alternative solution might be to impose a vaccination mandate, increase testing, better facilities with improved ventilation, and hazard pay for teachers along with a big freaking raise. But that seems to be a non starter. Instead we've chosen a path of disrespect, and that's actually a big component of this. Coming from a family of teachers, I'm sure you've heard this. Moreso than feeling afraid, teachers feel disrespected and disillusioned. They are ostensibly front-line essential workers, but they are called lazy, called unpatriotic, are underpaid, and overworked. There is a huge gap between the rhetoric/reality about how essential teachers are to managing this pandemic, and the attitudes and compensation they receive. Also, it's pretty condescending to suggest that this is all in teachers' heads, and they are just the victims of a fear mongering campaign. Stopping testing doesn't prevent teachers from being hospitalized or dying (and teachers are indeed dying). It also doesn't prevent their family members from being hospitalized or dying and teachers having to leave their jobs to take care of their family. It doesn't take many vacancies due to deaths or hospitalizations or retirements to completely throw a school into disarray -- especially considering the massive class sizes that many have to deal with. There's no extra slack other teachers can pick up. They are already stretched to the extreme when things are fully staffed.

galaxyLogic 5y ago

You make several strong claims in your post: 1. Shutting down schools does not help prevent the spread 2. Mask-mandates do not help (prevent the spread) 3. Science shows children don't spread the disease in any meaningful way 4. Children are not badly affected 5. Mask-mandates are "silly" Can you give us links to data that shows each of your five (5) claims to be correct?

CountDrewku 5y ago
https://adc.bmj.com/content/105/7/618 https://adc.bmj.com/content/105/7/618 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200710100934.h https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200710100934.h... https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32430964/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32430964/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32914746/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32914746/ https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jmv.26394 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jmv.26394 Yep and that's just a handful of easily found studies showing that children aren't in very low risk of COVID infecting them and/or causing any serious ailment. Therefore, the rest of your points are moot.