7 ms·

Honest question: At what point do we give up? I'm in the Bay Area and it'll be coming up on 2 years soon of what basically amounts to a social shut down. -- M

Honest question: At what point do we give up? I'm in the Bay Area and it'll be coming up on 2 years soon of what basically amounts to a social shut down. -- Many social groups are just not getting together anymore, including most of mine. -- Concerts, sporting events, parties of most sizes, crowded bars/clubs just seem off the table at this point. -- Masks for the majority of it, which makes gym going and working out, especially cardio, uncomfortable enough to not bother. -- It's been so long that I've now never met, in person, anyone on my team at work. Like yeah, technically we're not shut down. Technically you can do most things with masks/vaxxes. But for a lot of us things are still essentially shut down. Especially the social aspects. At what point can we give up? If at 4 years in with Variant #3242, are we still going to be doing what we're doing now? There's zero sign that this thing is going to stop any time soon.

SavantIdiot 5y ago
I read somewhere that a pandemic becomes an endemic when we agree on how many people we can accept dying each year.
shmel 5y ago
The answer is simple: it will stop when people decide it is over. Only non-compliance on massive scale will solve this. Science clearly said that Covid will be with us forever. We know that vaccines didn't stop the spread in even a single country. There is nothing else to wait. Take back your freedom now.
- yupper32 5y ago
  Yeah see this is why we can't have a real conversation about this. Every time I bring up this topic I'm bombarded with "ThEy'Re tAkInG YoUr FreEdOm!!" and "VaCcInEs DoN'T EvEn WorK" type people. I'm not part of that group.
  - shmel 5y ago
    I didn't say they don't work. They clearly work to significantly reduce deaths and hospitalizations. I totally agree on this. But they didn't stop the spread anywhere in the world. If you want to paint me with your stereotypes, go ahead.
    - khazhoux 5y ago
      In fairness, you are using the stereotypical language of anti-science vaccine deniers: "Non-compliance", "Take back your freedom."
      - sanedigital 5y ago
        Being anti-mandate doesn't make you anti-vax. It's not GP's fault if you can't tell the difference.
      - School-Cotton 5y ago
        They weren't even talking about the vaccine. They were talking about restrictions on (or general unwillingness to participate in) events and social gatherings. This pattern of thinking "if you believe X, you probably believe completely different thing Y, because a lot of people who believe X also believe Y" is a huge part of the problem with contemporary political discourse.
    - colinmhayes 5y ago
      They absolutely slowed the spread before Delta and Omicron hit the scene.
  - School-Cotton 5y ago
    Where did the person you're replying to claim vaccines don't work? You're projecting onto people with totally reasonable takes your own prejudices about what other, unreasonable, opinions you think they probably also hold. > I'm not part of that group. If you're not part of the group that believes that freedom is more important than decreasing the spread of Covid, then you've answered your own question. You will be living as you do now for the rest of your life, because Covid is obviously never going away.
CountDrewku 5y ago
School-Cotton 5y ago
You sound like you're describing a foreign country from my experiences in New York, Arizona, and Nevada. Why not move out of the Bay Area?
- khazhoux 5y ago
  "Just move" is not actually a useful response to someone's regional concern.
  - pb7 5y ago
    His concern doesn't reflect reality in this region.
colinmhayes 5y ago
> Concerts, sporting events, parties of most sizes, crowded bars/clubs Here in Chicago all of these things have been on the table since early summer, albeit masked. Omicron has shut things down again to an extent, but I doubt that'll last through January.
- pb7 5y ago
  It's been on the table since early summer in the Bay Area too. I have no idea what this dude is on about. There are more concerts and events than I remember there being in 2019 and they are frequently sold out.
  - yupper32 5y ago
    Of course they're still around, legally. I said they're not really on the table because the vast majority of experts are still saying not to gather in large groups. You have to go out of your way to ignore those experts in order to go to these concerts and events.
    - pb7 5y ago
      Yeah, that's their job. Their job isn't to make sure you live a fulfilling and happy life. They're warning you but after that it's up to you to weigh the risks and make decisions within the law of your jurisdiction. Personally, I've had the best time of my life last year and I plan on doing even better this year. You do you.
    - blindmute 5y ago
      Do you generally take no responsibility for your happiness and life trajectory, merely marching to orders from faceless strangers, or is that a recent development?
      - yupper32 5y ago
        When a doctor tells you to keep off your feet and go to x weeks of physical therapy, do you ignore them because it won't make you happy? When a doctor tells you to take an antibiotic until the bottle is empty, do you ignore them because you've started to feel fine after half the bottle? When a doctor tells you that you need to lose 50lbs, which will significantly change your lifestyle and in the short-term make you unhappy, do you ignore them? I don't ignore them. I listen to them, and follow their advice. Is this me merely marching to orders from strangers? Is this me taking "no responsibility for [my] happiness and life trajectory"? Why is this Covid situation any different?
fundad 5y ago
I know it's intimidating to go places alone and try to make friends there, it's what a lot of us have had to do any time we moved away from our social groups.
- yupper32 5y ago
  Finding a new group of friends who disregard health experts isn't exactly a great long-term plan. It's amazing that everyone's responses are basically, "the answer is simple! we just completely ignore the experts! we've been doing it all along!" I'm wondering when even the experts start saying "Damn this isn't worth it". What year of masking, remote learning, social distancing, etc. do they start to give up too? 3 years? 4 years? I got hints of it reading some doctors who have been hardened proponents of masks, vaccine mandates, etc. over the holidays where they were basically like "yeah the holidays are going to be a shit show but I'm still going to see family, even if it's not a good idea". Paraphrasing of course.
  - pb7 5y ago
    Have you considered that maybe at some point, especially 6+ months after a highly effective vaccine has been available to everyone that wants it, that people are going to want to go back to living their lives? Get vaccinated, get boosted, take precautions if it makes you feel better, but the show will go on.
    - yupper32 5y ago
      Who are we to make that decision? I'm not an immunologist or infectious disease expert, and I'm assuming you're not either.
      - pb7 5y ago
        I don't need to be.
      - n8cpdx 5y ago
        It is ok to have critical thinking. Especially after the experts have shown time and again that they aren’t great at making sociopolitical choices. The experts were telling you not to wear masks in March and not to get booster shots in August and not to vaccinate children in September. You live your life. You are the one to make your own choices. COVID is on its way to being flu 2.0 (the experts will tell you this if you ask the right questions). Compare it to the flu (especially if vaccinated) and ask yourself if not living your life for a minuscule risk is really worth it. Especially when most of the people actually at risk of death (the unvaccinated in the rich world) have been going out of their way to be at risk for many months.
kerneloftruth 5y ago
Now is good for me!
pb7 5y ago
> Concerts, sporting events, parties of most sizes, crowded bars/clubs just seem off the table at this point. All of these things have been happening and filled to capacity since June. It's time to go outside and not rely on your coworkers for social interaction.
blindmute 5y ago
Sounds like you need to make some new friends who aren't so neurotic. People without anxiety issues are in fact still socializing. Concerts, bars, restaurants are full. Your problem is with you.

SavantIdiot 5y ago

I read somewhere that a pandemic becomes an endemic when we agree on how many people we can accept dying each year.

shmel 5y ago

The answer is simple: it will stop when people decide it is over. Only non-compliance on massive scale will solve this. Science clearly said that Covid will be with us forever. We know that vaccines didn't stop the spread in even a single country. There is nothing else to wait. Take back your freedom now.

yupper32 5y ago
Yeah see this is why we can't have a real conversation about this. Every time I bring up this topic I'm bombarded with "ThEy'Re tAkInG YoUr FreEdOm!!" and "VaCcInEs DoN'T EvEn WorK" type people. I'm not part of that group.
- shmel 5y ago
  I didn't say they don't work. They clearly work to significantly reduce deaths and hospitalizations. I totally agree on this. But they didn't stop the spread anywhere in the world. If you want to paint me with your stereotypes, go ahead.
  - khazhoux 5y ago
    In fairness, you are using the stereotypical language of anti-science vaccine deniers: "Non-compliance", "Take back your freedom."
    - sanedigital 5y ago
      Being anti-mandate doesn't make you anti-vax. It's not GP's fault if you can't tell the difference.
    - School-Cotton 5y ago
      They weren't even talking about the vaccine. They were talking about restrictions on (or general unwillingness to participate in) events and social gatherings. This pattern of thinking "if you believe X, you probably believe completely different thing Y, because a lot of people who believe X also believe Y" is a huge part of the problem with contemporary political discourse.
  - colinmhayes 5y ago
    They absolutely slowed the spread before Delta and Omicron hit the scene.
- School-Cotton 5y ago
  Where did the person you're replying to claim vaccines don't work? You're projecting onto people with totally reasonable takes your own prejudices about what other, unreasonable, opinions you think they probably also hold. > I'm not part of that group. If you're not part of the group that believes that freedom is more important than decreasing the spread of Covid, then you've answered your own question. You will be living as you do now for the rest of your life, because Covid is obviously never going away.

CountDrewku 5y ago

School-Cotton 5y ago

You sound like you're describing a foreign country from my experiences in New York, Arizona, and Nevada. Why not move out of the Bay Area?

khazhoux 5y ago
"Just move" is not actually a useful response to someone's regional concern.
- pb7 5y ago
  His concern doesn't reflect reality in this region.

colinmhayes 5y ago

> Concerts, sporting events, parties of most sizes, crowded bars/clubs Here in Chicago all of these things have been on the table since early summer, albeit masked. Omicron has shut things down again to an extent, but I doubt that'll last through January.

pb7 5y ago
It's been on the table since early summer in the Bay Area too. I have no idea what this dude is on about. There are more concerts and events than I remember there being in 2019 and they are frequently sold out.
- yupper32 5y ago
  Of course they're still around, legally. I said they're not really on the table because the vast majority of experts are still saying not to gather in large groups. You have to go out of your way to ignore those experts in order to go to these concerts and events.
  - pb7 5y ago
    Yeah, that's their job. Their job isn't to make sure you live a fulfilling and happy life. They're warning you but after that it's up to you to weigh the risks and make decisions within the law of your jurisdiction. Personally, I've had the best time of my life last year and I plan on doing even better this year. You do you.
  - blindmute 5y ago
    Do you generally take no responsibility for your happiness and life trajectory, merely marching to orders from faceless strangers, or is that a recent development?
    - yupper32 5y ago
      When a doctor tells you to keep off your feet and go to x weeks of physical therapy, do you ignore them because it won't make you happy? When a doctor tells you to take an antibiotic until the bottle is empty, do you ignore them because you've started to feel fine after half the bottle? When a doctor tells you that you need to lose 50lbs, which will significantly change your lifestyle and in the short-term make you unhappy, do you ignore them? I don't ignore them. I listen to them, and follow their advice. Is this me merely marching to orders from strangers? Is this me taking "no responsibility for [my] happiness and life trajectory"? Why is this Covid situation any different?

fundad 5y ago

I know it's intimidating to go places alone and try to make friends there, it's what a lot of us have had to do any time we moved away from our social groups.

yupper32 5y ago
Finding a new group of friends who disregard health experts isn't exactly a great long-term plan. It's amazing that everyone's responses are basically, "the answer is simple! we just completely ignore the experts! we've been doing it all along!" I'm wondering when even the experts start saying "Damn this isn't worth it". What year of masking, remote learning, social distancing, etc. do they start to give up too? 3 years? 4 years? I got hints of it reading some doctors who have been hardened proponents of masks, vaccine mandates, etc. over the holidays where they were basically like "yeah the holidays are going to be a shit show but I'm still going to see family, even if it's not a good idea". Paraphrasing of course.
- pb7 5y ago
  Have you considered that maybe at some point, especially 6+ months after a highly effective vaccine has been available to everyone that wants it, that people are going to want to go back to living their lives? Get vaccinated, get boosted, take precautions if it makes you feel better, but the show will go on.
  - yupper32 5y ago
    Who are we to make that decision? I'm not an immunologist or infectious disease expert, and I'm assuming you're not either.
    - pb7 5y ago
      I don't need to be.
    - n8cpdx 5y ago
      It is ok to have critical thinking. Especially after the experts have shown time and again that they aren’t great at making sociopolitical choices. The experts were telling you not to wear masks in March and not to get booster shots in August and not to vaccinate children in September. You live your life. You are the one to make your own choices. COVID is on its way to being flu 2.0 (the experts will tell you this if you ask the right questions). Compare it to the flu (especially if vaccinated) and ask yourself if not living your life for a minuscule risk is really worth it. Especially when most of the people actually at risk of death (the unvaccinated in the rich world) have been going out of their way to be at risk for many months.

kerneloftruth 5y ago

Now is good for me!

pb7 5y ago

> Concerts, sporting events, parties of most sizes, crowded bars/clubs just seem off the table at this point. All of these things have been happening and filled to capacity since June. It's time to go outside and not rely on your coworkers for social interaction.

blindmute 5y ago

Sounds like you need to make some new friends who aren't so neurotic. People without anxiety issues are in fact still socializing. Concerts, bars, restaurants are full. Your problem is with you.