4 ms·

I can’t parse this objection. One of my failed attempts reads “My gasoline tank should have the same safety processes as electric cars”, which is obviously not

I can’t parse this objection. One of my failed attempts reads “My gasoline tank should have the same safety processes as electric cars”, which is obviously not a valid interpretation. My gas tank isn’t deadly for me to touch, so I’m quite lost if that’s what you meant instead. Help me understand what you mean?

Ansil849 5y ago
The parallel being drawn was that gas cars do not have components which can kill you when they are turned off: "it that can kill me dead when my car is powered off,", and so do not require stringent safety controls. My counter was that gas cars absolutely do have such components.
- akira2501 5y ago
  A 12V battery can kill you or seriously harm you. The entire chassis of the vehicle is the return path, and can make a short circuit or exposed wire exceptionally dangerous. Working around high current paths like the wire from the alternator can be a special hazard. The battery can also release explosive gasses if charged or used improperly or if other parts of the electrical system are damaged. Combined with a spark and again death and serious injury are possible. Pulleys and belts are under tension. It's probably not as lethal, but it's a stored energy hazard and has hurt plenty of technicians. Suspension systems contain many stored energy hazards. Tires with air pressure are a stored energy hazard, even if they're not attached to the vehicle.
  - Volker_W 5y ago
    > A 12V battery can kill you or seriously harm you. How?
    - akira2501 5y ago
      People wear metal jewelry and use metal tools. And dry skin resistance is not the same as wet skin resistance. Aside from these, admittedly, far fetched cases.. batteries can explode if serviced improperly.
    - pvaldes 5y ago
      Is filled with strong acids, for example. But I agree that having to deal with high voltage is a totally new level of troubles.
  - teruakohatu 5y ago
    You are vastly over estimating the hazards under a hood. When opening a hood and looking for a problem, filling up a water tank, checking oil or topping up the radiator the greatest danger is probably somehow not propping the food open correctly or forgetting to let it cool down first and touching a hot part or fluid and getting a minor burn. Opening a car hood is miles less dangerous than changing a light bulb on a desktop lamp, it's probably even less dangerous than driving the car on the road.
- gruez 5y ago
  >My counter was that gas cars absolutely do have such components. They do? From your previous message I'm guessing you're referring to the gas tank. While it's technically true you can kill yourself with a gas tank, I don't think it's anywhere near the danger of electric car batteries. For a gas tank there's a clear sequence of events needed to cause injury/death. You need to either puncture it and then expose it to an ignition source, or throw an ignition source directly into the tank. The first is likely to be noticed because gasoline has a distinctive smell, and is physically visible. It's also surprisingly to light gas on fire[1] even if there is a leak. The second is so implausible to happen it's not even worth considering. On the other hand, it's very easy for someone to touch the wrong wires under the hood of an electric car and get fried. There's no warning, you just get zapped. You might need to expose some wiring/connectors to get shocked, but there's nothing that tells you that this particular exposed wire is going to kill you. [1] https://mythresults.com/special7 https://mythresults.com/special7 "It is possible to ignite a pool of gasoline using only a cigarette."
  - floatingatoll 5y ago
    Typo: surprisingly ___ (difficult, I think it’s meant to say)
- barrkel 5y ago
  A modern fuel tank has two basic connections beyond sensors: fuel line and electrical supply for the fuel pump. When the pump isn't active, the only thing that comes out is a dribble of residual fuel from the fuel line. A full tank is not an intimidating thing on a motorcycle, where you're a lot more likely to remove it, it's not even that heavy. I'd be more worried about crush injuries working underneath a car.

Ansil849 5y ago

The parallel being drawn was that gas cars do not have components which can kill you when they are turned off: "it that can kill me dead when my car is powered off,", and so do not require stringent safety controls. My counter was that gas cars absolutely do have such components.

akira2501 5y ago
A 12V battery can kill you or seriously harm you. The entire chassis of the vehicle is the return path, and can make a short circuit or exposed wire exceptionally dangerous. Working around high current paths like the wire from the alternator can be a special hazard. The battery can also release explosive gasses if charged or used improperly or if other parts of the electrical system are damaged. Combined with a spark and again death and serious injury are possible. Pulleys and belts are under tension. It's probably not as lethal, but it's a stored energy hazard and has hurt plenty of technicians. Suspension systems contain many stored energy hazards. Tires with air pressure are a stored energy hazard, even if they're not attached to the vehicle.
- Volker_W 5y ago
  > A 12V battery can kill you or seriously harm you. How?
  - akira2501 5y ago
    People wear metal jewelry and use metal tools. And dry skin resistance is not the same as wet skin resistance. Aside from these, admittedly, far fetched cases.. batteries can explode if serviced improperly.
  - pvaldes 5y ago
    Is filled with strong acids, for example. But I agree that having to deal with high voltage is a totally new level of troubles.
- teruakohatu 5y ago
  You are vastly over estimating the hazards under a hood. When opening a hood and looking for a problem, filling up a water tank, checking oil or topping up the radiator the greatest danger is probably somehow not propping the food open correctly or forgetting to let it cool down first and touching a hot part or fluid and getting a minor burn. Opening a car hood is miles less dangerous than changing a light bulb on a desktop lamp, it's probably even less dangerous than driving the car on the road.
gruez 5y ago
>My counter was that gas cars absolutely do have such components. They do? From your previous message I'm guessing you're referring to the gas tank. While it's technically true you can kill yourself with a gas tank, I don't think it's anywhere near the danger of electric car batteries. For a gas tank there's a clear sequence of events needed to cause injury/death. You need to either puncture it and then expose it to an ignition source, or throw an ignition source directly into the tank. The first is likely to be noticed because gasoline has a distinctive smell, and is physically visible. It's also surprisingly to light gas on fire[1] even if there is a leak. The second is so implausible to happen it's not even worth considering. On the other hand, it's very easy for someone to touch the wrong wires under the hood of an electric car and get fried. There's no warning, you just get zapped. You might need to expose some wiring/connectors to get shocked, but there's nothing that tells you that this particular exposed wire is going to kill you. [1] https://mythresults.com/special7 https://mythresults.com/special7 "It is possible to ignite a pool of gasoline using only a cigarette."
- floatingatoll 5y ago
  Typo: surprisingly ___ (difficult, I think it’s meant to say)
barrkel 5y ago
A modern fuel tank has two basic connections beyond sensors: fuel line and electrical supply for the fuel pump. When the pump isn't active, the only thing that comes out is a dribble of residual fuel from the fuel line. A full tank is not an intimidating thing on a motorcycle, where you're a lot more likely to remove it, it's not even that heavy. I'd be more worried about crush injuries working underneath a car.