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"Don't write inflated and ridiculous job posts; they're a turn off to good people." I have noticed the following things about tasteless tactics: 1) they're oft

"Don't write inflated and ridiculous job posts; they're a turn off to good people." I have noticed the following things about tasteless tactics: 1) they're often horrifically effective; 2) people with taste will pronounce that they're ineffective without providing any evidence.

nicholasjbs 15y ago
You're right, we don't have real data. It's all anecdotal. But we speak to a lot of hackers, and we've yet to meet a good one who's said he likes those posts, and we've met plenty who hate them.
- shawndrost 15y ago
  See, that's the thing about tasteless tactics -- the fact that nobody says they like them cannot be taken as evidence that they're ineffective.
  - joelrunyon 15y ago
    Are they effective to the right people though?
    - wnight 15y ago
      That's it. They end up hiring people who think they're ninjas and rock stars. If all you need to do is fill a seat (traditional HR or recruiters) then this ad is probably pay-dirt - after all, there are a lot of people who want to be special. In looking for a place I'd like to work I look for ads that say they understand what I'd be doing. Also, there are two ways of asking for everything under the sun. The first, which rockstar/ninja companies ask for, is "7+ years Java, 3+ using ANT, 5+ in etc". You can never satisfy the requirements of this kind so they only get scammers or the truly naive who qualify but only because they once did all that stuff 10+ years ago. The second way, which hacker companies use, is to say "We use X, and do hard-thing-Y in it. If this is your speed, join us. Bonus points for things we don't know about." These are not only clear and precise to the people they want but easily lend themselves to entrance interviews.
samdk 15y ago
I finished up a job search a month and a half ago, and there were several places I didn't bother to apply to because I found their job posts annoying. Pretty much anything than mentioned being a "ninja" or a "rockstar" was ignored immediately, and there were a few others I discarded out of hand, too for similar reasons. Other than that, I'd just like to echo the point about responsiveness. There was one company I'd have loved to have worked whose job description I fit very well, but they took almost three weeks to respond to my application, and by then I'd already had an offer I really liked and I'd already written them off completely. There were a couple of others that said to bug them if I hadn't heard back in a while, and I mostly just stopped paying attention to those too.
chc 15y ago
They're horrifically effective at what? I kind of doubt the answer is "matching the job with a great candidate quickly." I would imagine it's something more like "getting a lot of responses," which IMO is the opposite of what you should really want out of a hiring call.
- joelrunyon 15y ago
  This ^^ Also, horrifically effective sounds actually like a bad thing. As in, they're incredibly effective at getting an obscene amount of poor job candidates that it's horrifying.

nicholasjbs 15y ago

You're right, we don't have real data. It's all anecdotal. But we speak to a lot of hackers, and we've yet to meet a good one who's said he likes those posts, and we've met plenty who hate them.

shawndrost 15y ago
See, that's the thing about tasteless tactics -- the fact that nobody says they like them cannot be taken as evidence that they're ineffective.
- joelrunyon 15y ago
  Are they effective to the right people though?
  - wnight 15y ago
    That's it. They end up hiring people who think they're ninjas and rock stars. If all you need to do is fill a seat (traditional HR or recruiters) then this ad is probably pay-dirt - after all, there are a lot of people who want to be special. In looking for a place I'd like to work I look for ads that say they understand what I'd be doing. Also, there are two ways of asking for everything under the sun. The first, which rockstar/ninja companies ask for, is "7+ years Java, 3+ using ANT, 5+ in etc". You can never satisfy the requirements of this kind so they only get scammers or the truly naive who qualify but only because they once did all that stuff 10+ years ago. The second way, which hacker companies use, is to say "We use X, and do hard-thing-Y in it. If this is your speed, join us. Bonus points for things we don't know about." These are not only clear and precise to the people they want but easily lend themselves to entrance interviews.

samdk 15y ago

I finished up a job search a month and a half ago, and there were several places I didn't bother to apply to because I found their job posts annoying. Pretty much anything than mentioned being a "ninja" or a "rockstar" was ignored immediately, and there were a few others I discarded out of hand, too for similar reasons. Other than that, I'd just like to echo the point about responsiveness. There was one company I'd have loved to have worked whose job description I fit very well, but they took almost three weeks to respond to my application, and by then I'd already had an offer I really liked and I'd already written them off completely. There were a couple of others that said to bug them if I hadn't heard back in a while, and I mostly just stopped paying attention to those too.

chc 15y ago

They're horrifically effective at what? I kind of doubt the answer is "matching the job with a great candidate quickly." I would imagine it's something more like "getting a lot of responses," which IMO is the opposite of what you should really want out of a hiring call.

joelrunyon 15y ago
This ^^ Also, horrifically effective sounds actually like a bad thing. As in, they're incredibly effective at getting an obscene amount of poor job candidates that it's horrifying.