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Say I mint an NFT and then purchase it myself for a high price. The next transaction will be Likely ahead of that price correct? Besides gas fees, what’s stoppi

Say I mint an NFT and then purchase it myself for a high price. The next transaction will be Likely ahead of that price correct? Besides gas fees, what’s stopping by people from pumping their own NFTs?

xur17 5y ago
I believe opensea also takes a 2.5% cut, which would make this relatively costly.
- guynamedloren 5y ago
  As long as they eventually find the greater fool, the 2.5% cut is just the cost of doing (pumping) business.
- danielvf 5y ago
  A friend of mine in the NFT business says that OpenSea's relatively high fee is one of the things that makes the site work, by putting a real cost onto wash trading at scale.
- bagels 5y ago
  If you mint a series of, say one hundred monkey pictures, and you buy one from yourself for $10k, you now have $1m in monkey pictures. The 2.5 points on a 10k transaction to create $1m is worth it.
  - xur17 5y ago
    You only have $1M if you can convince someone else to buy the rest at the "market price". Otherwise you have -$10k.
    - bagels 5y ago
      This is true, except you have only lost the $250 in fees. Some people are able to, some people are not.
      - cwackerfuss 5y ago
        And NFT traders are savvy to duplicated projects being illegitimate. There is only value in the verifiably legitimate project. If you bought a bored Ape that was "right click + save"d and published on OpenSea, it would be worthless.
        bagels 5y ago
        I was referring to the actual bored ape nft. And all the other scams following the same pattern.
snarf21 5y ago
Nothing. It is all a pyramid scheme so literally do whatever you want. I'm surprised someone hasn't written a script to copy existing ones and re-upload with a lower price.
- watewat 5y ago
  Buying your own goods counts as a "pyramid scheme" now? That would be market manipulation. A pyramid scheme recruits members via a promise of payments or services for enrolling others into the scheme, and not in an abstract sense. The usual "crypto bad" argument is calling it a Ponzi scheme. This doesn't count as one of those either, but no one really cares.
  - earthtolazlo 5y ago
    It’s wash trading to be exact, but that’s not really the point. The crypto markets as a whole have strong pyramid/ponzi scheme elements where most people are buying useless tokens with the sole intention of later selling them for a higher price to someone else. Not to mention obvious Ponzi schemes like Tether that provide much of the fake liquidity that feeds this mania.
    - watewat 5y ago
      > buying useless tokens with the sole intention of later selling them for a higher price Also not a pyramid or Ponzi scheme (as you probably know) or much different than Beanie Babies. This is how capitalism is supposed to work. > Not to mention obvious Ponzi schemes The obvious ones are the ones which actually are Ponzi schemes (eg BitConnect, PlusToken).
    - basch 5y ago
      >obvious Ponzi schemes like Tether a ponzi scheme pays out dividends or interest from deposits. unless tether is taking money from tether sales and paying it out to holders a kickback, it doesnt fit the definition. printing shares of tether and having more shares out than underlying collateral (which im not accusing them of doing) is just fractional reserve lending...
patatino 5y ago
Absolutely nothing
guynamedloren 5y ago
> what’s stopping by people from pumping their own NFTs? Nothing. My outsider understanding is ... this is exactly what's happening.
dylkil 5y ago
Nothing, just like nothing is stopping people bidding on their own art, livestock, antiques at auctions.
bagels 5y ago
This is what is happening.
latenightcoding 5y ago
You could also pretend to sell it to a famous person to promote your collection. I doubt eminem really paid the full $450k+ for that stupid ape nft.
shmatt 5y ago
The same thing that happens in every marketplace - be it sneakers (StockX), actual stocks, and beanie babies The thing is, and this is true for every market including the S&P500 - until the new money slows down, people will still profit no matter how little sense it makes financially As far as I understand the whole GME fiasco, this is exactly what was going on (in reverse)
Jxl180 5y ago
> The next transaction will be Likely ahead of that price correct? Being a “next transaction” is a mighty assumption. Just because you list something high doesn’t mean anyone is willing to actually by what you list. If that were the case, the values of an NFT project would theoretically never dip.

xur17 5y ago

I believe opensea also takes a 2.5% cut, which would make this relatively costly.

guynamedloren 5y ago
As long as they eventually find the greater fool, the 2.5% cut is just the cost of doing (pumping) business.
danielvf 5y ago
A friend of mine in the NFT business says that OpenSea's relatively high fee is one of the things that makes the site work, by putting a real cost onto wash trading at scale.
bagels 5y ago
If you mint a series of, say one hundred monkey pictures, and you buy one from yourself for $10k, you now have $1m in monkey pictures. The 2.5 points on a 10k transaction to create $1m is worth it.
- xur17 5y ago
  You only have $1M if you can convince someone else to buy the rest at the "market price". Otherwise you have -$10k.
  - bagels 5y ago
    This is true, except you have only lost the $250 in fees. Some people are able to, some people are not.
    - cwackerfuss 5y ago
      And NFT traders are savvy to duplicated projects being illegitimate. There is only value in the verifiably legitimate project. If you bought a bored Ape that was "right click + save"d and published on OpenSea, it would be worthless.
      - bagels 5y ago
        I was referring to the actual bored ape nft. And all the other scams following the same pattern.

snarf21 5y ago

Nothing. It is all a pyramid scheme so literally do whatever you want. I'm surprised someone hasn't written a script to copy existing ones and re-upload with a lower price.

watewat 5y ago
Buying your own goods counts as a "pyramid scheme" now? That would be market manipulation. A pyramid scheme recruits members via a promise of payments or services for enrolling others into the scheme, and not in an abstract sense. The usual "crypto bad" argument is calling it a Ponzi scheme. This doesn't count as one of those either, but no one really cares.
- earthtolazlo 5y ago
  It’s wash trading to be exact, but that’s not really the point. The crypto markets as a whole have strong pyramid/ponzi scheme elements where most people are buying useless tokens with the sole intention of later selling them for a higher price to someone else. Not to mention obvious Ponzi schemes like Tether that provide much of the fake liquidity that feeds this mania.
  - watewat 5y ago
    > buying useless tokens with the sole intention of later selling them for a higher price Also not a pyramid or Ponzi scheme (as you probably know) or much different than Beanie Babies. This is how capitalism is supposed to work. > Not to mention obvious Ponzi schemes The obvious ones are the ones which actually are Ponzi schemes (eg BitConnect, PlusToken).
  - basch 5y ago
    >obvious Ponzi schemes like Tether a ponzi scheme pays out dividends or interest from deposits. unless tether is taking money from tether sales and paying it out to holders a kickback, it doesnt fit the definition. printing shares of tether and having more shares out than underlying collateral (which im not accusing them of doing) is just fractional reserve lending...

patatino 5y ago

Absolutely nothing

guynamedloren 5y ago

> what’s stopping by people from pumping their own NFTs? Nothing. My outsider understanding is ... this is exactly what's happening.

dylkil 5y ago

Nothing, just like nothing is stopping people bidding on their own art, livestock, antiques at auctions.

bagels 5y ago

This is what is happening.

latenightcoding 5y ago

You could also pretend to sell it to a famous person to promote your collection. I doubt eminem really paid the full $450k+ for that stupid ape nft.

shmatt 5y ago

The same thing that happens in every marketplace - be it sneakers (StockX), actual stocks, and beanie babies The thing is, and this is true for every market including the S&P500 - until the new money slows down, people will still profit no matter how little sense it makes financially As far as I understand the whole GME fiasco, this is exactly what was going on (in reverse)

Jxl180 5y ago

> The next transaction will be Likely ahead of that price correct? Being a “next transaction” is a mighty assumption. Just because you list something high doesn’t mean anyone is willing to actually by what you list. If that were the case, the values of an NFT project would theoretically never dip.