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If you tell someone "this pill will cure your depression" without telling him "by turning you into a hippie", you're doing him a disservice. The zeitgeist right

If you tell someone "this pill will cure your depression" without telling him "by turning you into a hippie", you're doing him a disservice. The zeitgeist right now is that psychedelics cure a broad range of mental illnesses without any downsides whatsoever. That's far, far from true. It's my right not to be turned into a hippie.

alexk307 5y ago
No one asked you to take any drugs? No one is forcing you to take drugs or be a hippie, what does that have to do with anything?
xboxnolifes 5y ago
Nothing that you have said here defends the claim of that the effects themselves are detrimental. You just claimed that not telling someone the effects is a disservice. Which, while I agree, is irrelevant to the original claim. Having effects and having detrimental effects are two different things.
- quotemstr 5y ago
  The claim in the article is categorical. The claim is that there are no detrimental side effects. In order for that to be true, it must be the case that everyone prefers his personality to be shifted towards being a peace and love hippie. If I don't want my personality shifted that way (and I certainly don't), then that effect of psilocybin counts as detrimental for me, and therefore, the categorical claim being made is simply false. This recent fad for "fixing" people by taking them on psychedelic trips is creepy.
  - snikeris 5y ago
    It's not a fad, this is ancient medicine that is finally being accepted by modern medicine.
  - diatomaceous_ 5y ago
    Your paranoia of “hippies”, denigration of people who are “too peaceful”, and basic understanding of psychedelic pharmacology are wholly subjective, unscientific, and warped by media portrayals https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Psilocybin_mushrooms https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Psilocybin_mushrooms
  - tharne 5y ago
    > The claim in the article is categorical. The claim is that there are no detrimental side effects. That is not the claim made in the article. The article claims that no detrimental side effects were found over the course of the study, which had participants take small dosages of psilocybin in a clinical setting. That's a very specific scenario and is a world away from habitual recreational use. > This recent fad for "fixing" people by taking them on psychedelic trips is creepy. When looked at in isolation, yes, it can appear creepy. However when you look at the known side effects of other pharmaceuticals commonly used to treat mental illness, the case for psychedelics becomes a lot more compelling. Right now, most pysch medication really sucks, so if something sucks a little bit less, that's a win.
snikeris 5y ago
A hippie is a caricature, it is not a sub-species of human being. You can't be turned into a hippy. You'll still be yourself w/ some traits tweaked. For example, maybe you'll be more open to new experiences than you were before.
- quotemstr 5y ago
  > For example, maybe you'll be more open to new experiences than you were before. Maybe so. Maybe that version of myself would even approve of that change. My current self, however, very much does not want that change. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. Unwanted personality shifts are negative drug side effects and the people running around pitching psychedelics as miracle cures without downsides are harming people.
  - snikeris 5y ago
    Yeah so hypothetically, if you were depressed and no other treatments worked, your current self would have to decide if the "negative" side effect of altered traits is worth a shot at making your life worth living again. Perhaps some of those traits are even implicated in the depression and they need to be changed for it to lift. I do agree that patients should be briefed about trait changes, but again, perhaps that's exactly what they need.
  - __MatrixMan__ 5y ago
    Do you think it's common that psychedelice change people who don't want change? It's all anecdotal of course but I've seen quite a few life-course-changes inspired by psychedelics (most of them non-spiritual: change jobs, go to college, break up, quit smoking, that sort of thing) and in most cases the openness to that possibility is why people were taking them in the first place. From what I've seen, people who take them without a willingness to change don't typically find the experience to be meaningful or transformative.
easymodex 5y ago
Don't worry, I'm sure there will be a DISCLAIMER: Might cause joy, positive thinking, happiness and love for one another. Be very careful with it.

alexk307 5y ago

No one asked you to take any drugs? No one is forcing you to take drugs or be a hippie, what does that have to do with anything?

xboxnolifes 5y ago

Nothing that you have said here defends the claim of that the effects themselves are detrimental. You just claimed that not telling someone the effects is a disservice. Which, while I agree, is irrelevant to the original claim. Having effects and having detrimental effects are two different things.

quotemstr 5y ago
The claim in the article is categorical. The claim is that there are no detrimental side effects. In order for that to be true, it must be the case that everyone prefers his personality to be shifted towards being a peace and love hippie. If I don't want my personality shifted that way (and I certainly don't), then that effect of psilocybin counts as detrimental for me, and therefore, the categorical claim being made is simply false. This recent fad for "fixing" people by taking them on psychedelic trips is creepy.
- snikeris 5y ago
  It's not a fad, this is ancient medicine that is finally being accepted by modern medicine.
- diatomaceous_ 5y ago
  Your paranoia of “hippies”, denigration of people who are “too peaceful”, and basic understanding of psychedelic pharmacology are wholly subjective, unscientific, and warped by media portrayals https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Psilocybin_mushrooms https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Psilocybin_mushrooms
- tharne 5y ago
  > The claim in the article is categorical. The claim is that there are no detrimental side effects. That is not the claim made in the article. The article claims that no detrimental side effects were found over the course of the study, which had participants take small dosages of psilocybin in a clinical setting. That's a very specific scenario and is a world away from habitual recreational use. > This recent fad for "fixing" people by taking them on psychedelic trips is creepy. When looked at in isolation, yes, it can appear creepy. However when you look at the known side effects of other pharmaceuticals commonly used to treat mental illness, the case for psychedelics becomes a lot more compelling. Right now, most pysch medication really sucks, so if something sucks a little bit less, that's a win.

snikeris 5y ago

A hippie is a caricature, it is not a sub-species of human being. You can't be turned into a hippy. You'll still be yourself w/ some traits tweaked. For example, maybe you'll be more open to new experiences than you were before.

quotemstr 5y ago
> For example, maybe you'll be more open to new experiences than you were before. Maybe so. Maybe that version of myself would even approve of that change. My current self, however, very much does not want that change. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. Unwanted personality shifts are negative drug side effects and the people running around pitching psychedelics as miracle cures without downsides are harming people.
- snikeris 5y ago
  Yeah so hypothetically, if you were depressed and no other treatments worked, your current self would have to decide if the "negative" side effect of altered traits is worth a shot at making your life worth living again. Perhaps some of those traits are even implicated in the depression and they need to be changed for it to lift. I do agree that patients should be briefed about trait changes, but again, perhaps that's exactly what they need.
- __MatrixMan__ 5y ago
  Do you think it's common that psychedelice change people who don't want change? It's all anecdotal of course but I've seen quite a few life-course-changes inspired by psychedelics (most of them non-spiritual: change jobs, go to college, break up, quit smoking, that sort of thing) and in most cases the openness to that possibility is why people were taking them in the first place. From what I've seen, people who take them without a willingness to change don't typically find the experience to be meaningful or transformative.

easymodex 5y ago

Don't worry, I'm sure there will be a DISCLAIMER: Might cause joy, positive thinking, happiness and love for one another. Be very careful with it.