5 ms·

It's an unfortunate feature of our culture that a shift towards peace, love and empathy is perceived as detrimental.

quotemstr 5y ago
If you tell someone "this pill will cure your depression" without telling him "by turning you into a hippie", you're doing him a disservice. The zeitgeist right now is that psychedelics cure a broad range of mental illnesses without any downsides whatsoever. That's far, far from true. It's my right not to be turned into a hippie.
- alexk307 5y ago
  No one asked you to take any drugs? No one is forcing you to take drugs or be a hippie, what does that have to do with anything?
- xboxnolifes 5y ago
  Nothing that you have said here defends the claim of that the effects themselves are detrimental. You just claimed that not telling someone the effects is a disservice. Which, while I agree, is irrelevant to the original claim. Having effects and having detrimental effects are two different things.
  - quotemstr 5y ago
    The claim in the article is categorical. The claim is that there are no detrimental side effects. In order for that to be true, it must be the case that everyone prefers his personality to be shifted towards being a peace and love hippie. If I don't want my personality shifted that way (and I certainly don't), then that effect of psilocybin counts as detrimental for me, and therefore, the categorical claim being made is simply false. This recent fad for "fixing" people by taking them on psychedelic trips is creepy.
    - snikeris 5y ago
      It's not a fad, this is ancient medicine that is finally being accepted by modern medicine.
    - diatomaceous_ 5y ago
      Your paranoia of “hippies”, denigration of people who are “too peaceful”, and basic understanding of psychedelic pharmacology are wholly subjective, unscientific, and warped by media portrayals https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Psilocybin_mushrooms https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Psilocybin_mushrooms
    - tharne 5y ago
      > The claim in the article is categorical. The claim is that there are no detrimental side effects. That is not the claim made in the article. The article claims that no detrimental side effects were found over the course of the study, which had participants take small dosages of psilocybin in a clinical setting. That's a very specific scenario and is a world away from habitual recreational use. > This recent fad for "fixing" people by taking them on psychedelic trips is creepy. When looked at in isolation, yes, it can appear creepy. However when you look at the known side effects of other pharmaceuticals commonly used to treat mental illness, the case for psychedelics becomes a lot more compelling. Right now, most pysch medication really sucks, so if something sucks a little bit less, that's a win.
- snikeris 5y ago
  A hippie is a caricature, it is not a sub-species of human being. You can't be turned into a hippy. You'll still be yourself w/ some traits tweaked. For example, maybe you'll be more open to new experiences than you were before.
  - quotemstr 5y ago
    > For example, maybe you'll be more open to new experiences than you were before. Maybe so. Maybe that version of myself would even approve of that change. My current self, however, very much does not want that change. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. Unwanted personality shifts are negative drug side effects and the people running around pitching psychedelics as miracle cures without downsides are harming people.
    - snikeris 5y ago
      Yeah so hypothetically, if you were depressed and no other treatments worked, your current self would have to decide if the "negative" side effect of altered traits is worth a shot at making your life worth living again. Perhaps some of those traits are even implicated in the depression and they need to be changed for it to lift. I do agree that patients should be briefed about trait changes, but again, perhaps that's exactly what they need.
    - __MatrixMan__ 5y ago
      Do you think it's common that psychedelice change people who don't want change? It's all anecdotal of course but I've seen quite a few life-course-changes inspired by psychedelics (most of them non-spiritual: change jobs, go to college, break up, quit smoking, that sort of thing) and in most cases the openness to that possibility is why people were taking them in the first place. From what I've seen, people who take them without a willingness to change don't typically find the experience to be meaningful or transformative.
- easymodex 5y ago
  Don't worry, I'm sure there will be a DISCLAIMER: Might cause joy, positive thinking, happiness and love for one another. Be very careful with it.
qaq 5y ago
detrimental to crushing it!
lostmsu 5y ago
> a shift towards peace, love and empathy The new top comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29799013 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29799013 describes what I see from shroom users better. People who do shrooms only feel like they are closer to peace, love, and empathy. In reality nothing changes, but they gain ego based on that feeling, which seems to have an opposite effect described in the linked comment (e.g. the idea that the world revolves around them).
- neuro_image2 5y ago
  Psychedelics are very powerful compounds acting on the infinitely complex human nervous system. It should therefore be expected that the outcomes will be extremely variable and highly contingent on the background and predispositions of the user, the type(s) and dose(s) of the drug(s), the context of the usage of the drug (including related psychotherapy) and other events, practices and influences in the individual's life. That being said, I have noticed, a general trend towards: - Less combativeness, agitation and aggression. There is less tendency to want to engage in petty squabbles or incite your own (or others) negative emotional reactions. - Openness to more creative ideas. A cynical take would be that you become more suggestible/easily influenced (and this may be a feature also). There definitely seams to be a new willingness to consider new viewpoints, new ideas and new options. You may find yourself re-engaging in old intellectual pursuits, exploring previously unsolved problems and/or using previously unrelated topics/fields in conjunction. - In a similar vein, you may also find yourself exploring spiritual/philosophical topics, especially those related to compassion, empathy, group cohesion and 'reduced ego'. This probably looks an awful lot like hippiness lol. This may include rethinking political, social and economic attitudes. - Generally more positive thoughts and emotions (positive valence). This often follows a period of emotional and intellectual turmoil (which may loosely coincide with a 'bad trip' at the time of ingestion or subsequently, during a period of integration). This generally, but not always, results in a long term overall improvement in mood and overall outlook. - Psychedelics may help in getting through/integrating past trauma. This may be part of what underlies the above. Many of us live with the after-effects of trauma and being able to work past this can be life-changing. This may be a traumatic process in itself, but sometimes psychedelics facilitate approaching these issues in ways that were not previously possible. IMHO many of the most severely affected by trauma are not even aware of the fact that they're affected and this manifests in a plethora of negative outcomes. Psychedelics in a positively reinforced environment (ideally with therapy) can help tremendously here. There are a lot of really great resources online for anyone who is interested (regardless of your level of personal experience or opinion): Highly recommend qualiacomputing.com and qualiaresearchinstitute.org (along with the group's online videos), especially for the HN crowd looking for a more multifaceted, more 'scientifically rigorous' (I use the term loosely here lol, but I think you'll get what I mean). I'd also recommend some of the lectures on the Oxford Psychedelic Society's website: https://oxpsysoc.org/#things https://oxpsysoc.org/#things I hope you find this helpful. Psychedelics are a complex topic but overall I believe they have immense potential to help many people, including but not limited to the following. I strongly encourage anyone reading this to learn more. - Pain syndromes, including intractable, severe, pain syndromes like cluster headaches. - Resolving trauma (including but not limited to PTSD). - Psychological disorders, including depression and anxiety. - Overcoming addictions.

If you tell someone "this pill will cure your depression" without telling him "by turning you into a hippie", you're doing him a disservice. The zeitgeist right now is that psychedelics cure a broad range of mental illnesses without any downsides whatsoever. That's far, far from true. It's my right not to be turned into a hippie.

alexk307 5y ago
No one asked you to take any drugs? No one is forcing you to take drugs or be a hippie, what does that have to do with anything?
xboxnolifes 5y ago
Nothing that you have said here defends the claim of that the effects themselves are detrimental. You just claimed that not telling someone the effects is a disservice. Which, while I agree, is irrelevant to the original claim. Having effects and having detrimental effects are two different things.
- quotemstr 5y ago
  The claim in the article is categorical. The claim is that there are no detrimental side effects. In order for that to be true, it must be the case that everyone prefers his personality to be shifted towards being a peace and love hippie. If I don't want my personality shifted that way (and I certainly don't), then that effect of psilocybin counts as detrimental for me, and therefore, the categorical claim being made is simply false. This recent fad for "fixing" people by taking them on psychedelic trips is creepy.
  - snikeris 5y ago
    It's not a fad, this is ancient medicine that is finally being accepted by modern medicine.
  - diatomaceous_ 5y ago
    Your paranoia of “hippies”, denigration of people who are “too peaceful”, and basic understanding of psychedelic pharmacology are wholly subjective, unscientific, and warped by media portrayals https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Psilocybin_mushrooms https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Psilocybin_mushrooms
  - tharne 5y ago
    > The claim in the article is categorical. The claim is that there are no detrimental side effects. That is not the claim made in the article. The article claims that no detrimental side effects were found over the course of the study, which had participants take small dosages of psilocybin in a clinical setting. That's a very specific scenario and is a world away from habitual recreational use. > This recent fad for "fixing" people by taking them on psychedelic trips is creepy. When looked at in isolation, yes, it can appear creepy. However when you look at the known side effects of other pharmaceuticals commonly used to treat mental illness, the case for psychedelics becomes a lot more compelling. Right now, most pysch medication really sucks, so if something sucks a little bit less, that's a win.
snikeris 5y ago
A hippie is a caricature, it is not a sub-species of human being. You can't be turned into a hippy. You'll still be yourself w/ some traits tweaked. For example, maybe you'll be more open to new experiences than you were before.
- quotemstr 5y ago
  > For example, maybe you'll be more open to new experiences than you were before. Maybe so. Maybe that version of myself would even approve of that change. My current self, however, very much does not want that change. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. Unwanted personality shifts are negative drug side effects and the people running around pitching psychedelics as miracle cures without downsides are harming people.
  - snikeris 5y ago
    Yeah so hypothetically, if you were depressed and no other treatments worked, your current self would have to decide if the "negative" side effect of altered traits is worth a shot at making your life worth living again. Perhaps some of those traits are even implicated in the depression and they need to be changed for it to lift. I do agree that patients should be briefed about trait changes, but again, perhaps that's exactly what they need.
  - __MatrixMan__ 5y ago
    Do you think it's common that psychedelice change people who don't want change? It's all anecdotal of course but I've seen quite a few life-course-changes inspired by psychedelics (most of them non-spiritual: change jobs, go to college, break up, quit smoking, that sort of thing) and in most cases the openness to that possibility is why people were taking them in the first place. From what I've seen, people who take them without a willingness to change don't typically find the experience to be meaningful or transformative.
easymodex 5y ago
Don't worry, I'm sure there will be a DISCLAIMER: Might cause joy, positive thinking, happiness and love for one another. Be very careful with it.

qaq 5y ago

detrimental to crushing it!

lostmsu 5y ago

> a shift towards peace, love and empathy The new top comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29799013 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29799013 describes what I see from shroom users better. People who do shrooms only feel like they are closer to peace, love, and empathy. In reality nothing changes, but they gain ego based on that feeling, which seems to have an opposite effect described in the linked comment (e.g. the idea that the world revolves around them).

neuro_image2 5y ago
Psychedelics are very powerful compounds acting on the infinitely complex human nervous system. It should therefore be expected that the outcomes will be extremely variable and highly contingent on the background and predispositions of the user, the type(s) and dose(s) of the drug(s), the context of the usage of the drug (including related psychotherapy) and other events, practices and influences in the individual's life. That being said, I have noticed, a general trend towards: - Less combativeness, agitation and aggression. There is less tendency to want to engage in petty squabbles or incite your own (or others) negative emotional reactions. - Openness to more creative ideas. A cynical take would be that you become more suggestible/easily influenced (and this may be a feature also). There definitely seams to be a new willingness to consider new viewpoints, new ideas and new options. You may find yourself re-engaging in old intellectual pursuits, exploring previously unsolved problems and/or using previously unrelated topics/fields in conjunction. - In a similar vein, you may also find yourself exploring spiritual/philosophical topics, especially those related to compassion, empathy, group cohesion and 'reduced ego'. This probably looks an awful lot like hippiness lol. This may include rethinking political, social and economic attitudes. - Generally more positive thoughts and emotions (positive valence). This often follows a period of emotional and intellectual turmoil (which may loosely coincide with a 'bad trip' at the time of ingestion or subsequently, during a period of integration). This generally, but not always, results in a long term overall improvement in mood and overall outlook. - Psychedelics may help in getting through/integrating past trauma. This may be part of what underlies the above. Many of us live with the after-effects of trauma and being able to work past this can be life-changing. This may be a traumatic process in itself, but sometimes psychedelics facilitate approaching these issues in ways that were not previously possible. IMHO many of the most severely affected by trauma are not even aware of the fact that they're affected and this manifests in a plethora of negative outcomes. Psychedelics in a positively reinforced environment (ideally with therapy) can help tremendously here. There are a lot of really great resources online for anyone who is interested (regardless of your level of personal experience or opinion): Highly recommend qualiacomputing.com and qualiaresearchinstitute.org (along with the group's online videos), especially for the HN crowd looking for a more multifaceted, more 'scientifically rigorous' (I use the term loosely here lol, but I think you'll get what I mean). I'd also recommend some of the lectures on the Oxford Psychedelic Society's website: https://oxpsysoc.org/#things https://oxpsysoc.org/#things I hope you find this helpful. Psychedelics are a complex topic but overall I believe they have immense potential to help many people, including but not limited to the following. I strongly encourage anyone reading this to learn more. - Pain syndromes, including intractable, severe, pain syndromes like cluster headaches. - Resolving trauma (including but not limited to PTSD). - Psychological disorders, including depression and anxiety. - Overcoming addictions.