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Agreed. I work on my own cars but they're all ICE. Once the car is jacked up onto jack stands, I feel pretty safe working on my car because there is nothing mov

Agreed. I work on my own cars but they're all ICE. Once the car is jacked up onto jack stands, I feel pretty safe working on my car because there is nothing moving nor live (except for the 12v, which I can disconnect). I don't know if that's the case for EVs.

onphonenow 5y ago
Yeah, Rossmann is kind of an idiot. An EV car has high / deadly energy in its high voltage side. If you are going to do hundreds of volts and hundreds of amps to get a heavy vehicle to 60mph in 3 seconds, you simply must have some pretty high potential energy ready to go. I'm kind of surprised they don't have warnings for folks like first responders as well - imagine cutting through a tesla - seems if you go through a HV cable you could just create a big problem.
- mulmen 5y ago
  It's a good question. I assume there's some amount of consistent design that allows safe assumptions on the part of emergency responders. Like not running fuel lines through doors and pillars. I have no idea if such a standard exists. Here's the first quack, looks like some fire departments actually do train on Teslas. Not sure if they also train on other models. https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-jaws-of-life-first-responder-training/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-jaws-of-life-first-r...
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    Cables aren't fuel lines. If you short a HV cable, the battery BMS WILL trip, and the battery will be disconnected. If it doesn't, it's gross negligence on the part of Tesla.
    - mulmen 5y ago
      Ok but there's still no reason to run HV cables through pillars, right? Like part of the design of the car is to be hacked open after an accident.
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        Yup, agreed.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  If you cut through a HV cable while wearing basic protective equipment, you will trip the BMS and be fine. In the same way you have to disconnect a few things to make an ICE vehicle safe to use, you have to simply disconnect the battery, and it will be safe. This can be easily engineered. Louis Rossman isn't an idiot, he worked on EVs with voltages high enough to injure you (and so have I), and he's correct.
  - onphonenow 5y ago
    He is clearly an idiot if he can't open that front but claims he is technically skilled enough to work on HV. That doesn't work together. Either you are able to do some basic mechanical and thinking work (in which case you can easily open the front) or you can't figure it out - in which case you really should not be poking around in there. You literally just have to remove a plastic cover. If you can't figure that out there are many youtube videos showing you how to do this. If you are too dumb to figure that out, then you shouldn't be under there. Note that "you have to simply disconnect the battery" - is not as simple as you make it sound. I think they even pulled the window washer fluid out from under there. Anyways, the outrage over this is totally ridiculous and folks who can't figure out how to open this hood - yes, probably idiots. There is a new sort of thing - "learned helplessness" is maybe a good term? It's like critical thinking skills are disengaged. I'm reminded of small children who sort of flop around even when the thing they want is right there for them to grab. If folks would engage critical thinking skills a bit more I think a lot of these issues would diminish in terms of being barriers AND you might also understand why a company selling a luxury car to owners who in most cases do NONE of their own servicing might take this approach.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      He can figure out how to open it. That's not the issue. The issue is the car telling that you're not allowed to do it that's the issue. I can't think of a car telling me that I don't have the permission to repair it before. As far as disconnecting the battery, I agree that on many EVs it's needlessly complicated to know that the HV circuit is de-energized and to put it in that state. That's the fault of the manufacturer, and it shouldn't be acceptable.
- dreamcompiler 5y ago
  https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders
sudosysgen 5y ago
That is the case for EVs. You can disconnect the batteries and feel perfectly safe.
lamontcg 5y ago
> Once the car is jacked up onto jack stands, I feel pretty safe working on my car Lots of people have been killed because they didn't use jack stands or didn't use them right.

onphonenow 5y ago

Yeah, Rossmann is kind of an idiot. An EV car has high / deadly energy in its high voltage side. If you are going to do hundreds of volts and hundreds of amps to get a heavy vehicle to 60mph in 3 seconds, you simply must have some pretty high potential energy ready to go. I'm kind of surprised they don't have warnings for folks like first responders as well - imagine cutting through a tesla - seems if you go through a HV cable you could just create a big problem.

mulmen 5y ago
It's a good question. I assume there's some amount of consistent design that allows safe assumptions on the part of emergency responders. Like not running fuel lines through doors and pillars. I have no idea if such a standard exists. Here's the first quack, looks like some fire departments actually do train on Teslas. Not sure if they also train on other models. https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-jaws-of-life-first-responder-training/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-jaws-of-life-first-r...
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Cables aren't fuel lines. If you short a HV cable, the battery BMS WILL trip, and the battery will be disconnected. If it doesn't, it's gross negligence on the part of Tesla.
  - mulmen 5y ago
    Ok but there's still no reason to run HV cables through pillars, right? Like part of the design of the car is to be hacked open after an accident.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      Yup, agreed.
sudosysgen 5y ago
If you cut through a HV cable while wearing basic protective equipment, you will trip the BMS and be fine. In the same way you have to disconnect a few things to make an ICE vehicle safe to use, you have to simply disconnect the battery, and it will be safe. This can be easily engineered. Louis Rossman isn't an idiot, he worked on EVs with voltages high enough to injure you (and so have I), and he's correct.
- onphonenow 5y ago
  He is clearly an idiot if he can't open that front but claims he is technically skilled enough to work on HV. That doesn't work together. Either you are able to do some basic mechanical and thinking work (in which case you can easily open the front) or you can't figure it out - in which case you really should not be poking around in there. You literally just have to remove a plastic cover. If you can't figure that out there are many youtube videos showing you how to do this. If you are too dumb to figure that out, then you shouldn't be under there. Note that "you have to simply disconnect the battery" - is not as simple as you make it sound. I think they even pulled the window washer fluid out from under there. Anyways, the outrage over this is totally ridiculous and folks who can't figure out how to open this hood - yes, probably idiots. There is a new sort of thing - "learned helplessness" is maybe a good term? It's like critical thinking skills are disengaged. I'm reminded of small children who sort of flop around even when the thing they want is right there for them to grab. If folks would engage critical thinking skills a bit more I think a lot of these issues would diminish in terms of being barriers AND you might also understand why a company selling a luxury car to owners who in most cases do NONE of their own servicing might take this approach.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    He can figure out how to open it. That's not the issue. The issue is the car telling that you're not allowed to do it that's the issue. I can't think of a car telling me that I don't have the permission to repair it before. As far as disconnecting the battery, I agree that on many EVs it's needlessly complicated to know that the HV circuit is de-energized and to put it in that state. That's the fault of the manufacturer, and it shouldn't be acceptable.
dreamcompiler 5y ago
https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders

sudosysgen 5y ago

That is the case for EVs. You can disconnect the batteries and feel perfectly safe.

lamontcg 5y ago

> Once the car is jacked up onto jack stands, I feel pretty safe working on my car Lots of people have been killed because they didn't use jack stands or didn't use them right.