4 ms·

I think this comment only acknowledges the existence of white collar jobs. You used to be able to pay for a house, a car, and the kids' college education with

by jbooth 15y ago

I think this comment only acknowledges the existence of white collar jobs. You used to be able to pay for a house, a car, and the kids' college education with a factory job. While the wife stayed at home. Now, that scenario is eye-popping unbelievable. You're probably at wal-mart or starbucks if you don't have some sort of specialist skill or a connection into the white collar world. I'm not endorsing a particular solution here, and specifically not endorsing forcing factories to employ expensive people instead of cheap robots to 'create jobs'. But it's important to see the situation clearly.

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  - anamax 15y ago
    > Please, point to me one example of this blue collar utopia. Much of the "oil states" are like that. > What about CPAs, lawyers, and their must be some sort of corporate hierarchy wherever these people are employed right? (1) In other words, you don't actually know anything about these biz,so you're hoping that what you picked up watching "The Office" is reasonably close. It isn't. (2) Not really. How many lawyers do you think an oil drilling company needs? They need more CPAs than lawyers, but a decent "roughneck" costs more and a decent foreman is gold, and gets it. The lawyers? Not so much. It's hard and dangerous work, but it's very good money. You folks really ought to look at what decent tradesmen get.
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    - madh 15y ago
      A skilled tradesmen can get six figures.
    - cellularmitosis 15y ago
      Taking a few welding courses at the local community college was an eye opening experience for me. Welding is a means by which someone with essentially no education (but a steady hand) can earn a very decent living. Additionally, I've heard the age of the average weldor is something like 58. There's a coming glut in the market for skilled weldors, and it's going to be big. http://bit.ly/pmZVkz http://bit.ly/pmZVkz
      - iskander 15y ago
        Same for small-scale computerized manufacturing. The educational requirements are slightly higher (shockingly few people know even the simplest shred of trigonometry) but it's still a great way for some who would otherwise be flipping burgers to support a family.
  - illumin8 15y ago
    You should look at the hourly bill rates for licensed electricians and plumbers. These are definitely blue collar jobs, yet their hourly rates are probably more than most software developers.
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    - Roboprog 15y ago
      I suspect they get paid about 1/3 of what they are billed at, just like programmers working for a consulting shop. Even if self employed, the overcharge helps make up for unbillable work and other overhead. Often, at least.
Typhon 15y ago
The disappearance of blue collar jobs is most probably due to the fact that it is cheaper to put them in faraway countries where minimum wages either don't exist, or are ridiculously lower.
shawndrost 15y ago
You're right that it's gotten harder for blue-collar people in the US. However, those jobs now belong to former subsistence farmers in developing nations, so it's quite different when you look at it from a global perspective.
- polshaw 15y ago
  So what of the uneducated man from a developed nation? Unemployed, by your statement.
  - w1ntermute 15y ago
    And he'd better educate himself if he wants to improve his standing. He was an economic inefficiency that has been unceremoniously weeded out.
    - Roboprog 15y ago
      Are you trying to invoke Godwin's Law, or something?
raldi 15y ago
> You used to be able to... And you still can, if you live like it's 1960. Cancel cable, Internet, and everyone's cell phones. Never fly. Don't buy organic food. No HDTV, iPod, iPad, or laptop. Have a modest wedding. Don't send your kids to college. Live in a one-story house with one bathroom and a small garage for your one car. If people today have to work harder and smarter than their 1960s counterparts, it's because they choose to pursue a correspondingly higher quality of life.
- raldi 15y ago
  Oh, and forget about air conditioning.

by jbooth 15y ago

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- anamax 15y ago
  > Please, point to me one example of this blue collar utopia. Much of the "oil states" are like that. > What about CPAs, lawyers, and their must be some sort of corporate hierarchy wherever these people are employed right? (1) In other words, you don't actually know anything about these biz,so you're hoping that what you picked up watching "The Office" is reasonably close. It isn't. (2) Not really. How many lawyers do you think an oil drilling company needs? They need more CPAs than lawyers, but a decent "roughneck" costs more and a decent foreman is gold, and gets it. The lawyers? Not so much. It's hard and dangerous work, but it's very good money. You folks really ought to look at what decent tradesmen get.
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  - madh 15y ago
    A skilled tradesmen can get six figures.
  - cellularmitosis 15y ago
    Taking a few welding courses at the local community college was an eye opening experience for me. Welding is a means by which someone with essentially no education (but a steady hand) can earn a very decent living. Additionally, I've heard the age of the average weldor is something like 58. There's a coming glut in the market for skilled weldors, and it's going to be big. http://bit.ly/pmZVkz http://bit.ly/pmZVkz
    - iskander 15y ago
      Same for small-scale computerized manufacturing. The educational requirements are slightly higher (shockingly few people know even the simplest shred of trigonometry) but it's still a great way for some who would otherwise be flipping burgers to support a family.
- illumin8 15y ago
  You should look at the hourly bill rates for licensed electricians and plumbers. These are definitely blue collar jobs, yet their hourly rates are probably more than most software developers.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - Roboprog 15y ago
    I suspect they get paid about 1/3 of what they are billed at, just like programmers working for a consulting shop. Even if self employed, the overcharge helps make up for unbillable work and other overhead. Often, at least.

Typhon 15y ago

The disappearance of blue collar jobs is most probably due to the fact that it is cheaper to put them in faraway countries where minimum wages either don't exist, or are ridiculously lower.

shawndrost 15y ago

You're right that it's gotten harder for blue-collar people in the US. However, those jobs now belong to former subsistence farmers in developing nations, so it's quite different when you look at it from a global perspective.

polshaw 15y ago
So what of the uneducated man from a developed nation? Unemployed, by your statement.
- w1ntermute 15y ago
  And he'd better educate himself if he wants to improve his standing. He was an economic inefficiency that has been unceremoniously weeded out.
  - Roboprog 15y ago
    Are you trying to invoke Godwin's Law, or something?

raldi 15y ago

> You used to be able to... And you still can, if you live like it's 1960. Cancel cable, Internet, and everyone's cell phones. Never fly. Don't buy organic food. No HDTV, iPod, iPad, or laptop. Have a modest wedding. Don't send your kids to college. Live in a one-story house with one bathroom and a small garage for your one car. If people today have to work harder and smarter than their 1960s counterparts, it's because they choose to pursue a correspondingly higher quality of life.

raldi 15y ago
Oh, and forget about air conditioning.