5 ms·

> with this grey nihilistic view that einstein is equal to Joe the Plumber. Evoking Einstein to defend eugenics is an... interesting choice.

champagnois 5y ago
Einstein is a good example of a rare genius that helped push the species forward. Not sure what you are even hinting at here? Do you hate his hair or something?
- staticassertion 5y ago
  Einstein opposed Nazi Germany (which aligned with eugenics) and outright rejected the idea of eugenics as a pursuit. I suspect he would be disgusted at the idea of being used as an exemplar for eugenics.
  - champagnois 5y ago
    I don't think what I am talking about is quite the same thing. Perhaps it would be more diplomatic to call my stance here to be in favor of applied genetics. DNA the molecule of genetics was not yet discovered. I do think there is a lot of potential in the idea of, say, cloning someone like Einstein from samples that have been preserved. It would be very interesting to me if a nation state cloned such people and set them to work on modern problems of quantum physics. What could such people accomplish in their lifetime starting in the present with our current knowledge and proofs and technologies. well Einstein was against this idea of, you know, German pseudoscience, where they had these men going through mountains in the Middle East and measuring skulls and what have you, I do think applied genetics is a very different science.
    - throwawaygh 5y ago
      > Einstein... It would be very interesting to me if a nation state cloned such people and set them to work on modern problems of quantum physics. This thread just keeps getting better. Do you... I mean... you do know why this is funny, right?
      - champagnois 5y ago
        To be honest, no. No, I do not know why you find this so funny.
        throwawaygh 5y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr%E2%80%93Einstein_debates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr%E2%80%93Einstein_debates You keep evoking Einstein in contexts that would have him rolling in his grave. Imagine raising Einstein from the dead to tell him that he's the standard bearer of eugenics and a version of quantum mechanics that was not in his image. It's humorous. You seem to know very little about science or its history but are quick to evoke scientism in defense of ideas that in actuality have very little to do with science.
        champagnois 5y ago
        >>Wiki Fun read and all. Thanks for that link. Very cool. >>You seem to know very little about science Einstein the person, the history of his life, etc are fully separate from contributions to science. Science is, generally, not about cults of personality, history, or any of that. I have a great appreciation, respect, gratefulness, passion, and enthusiasm for science, progress, and advancement of the species. One does not have to study the trivialities of how Einstein took his coffee or tea in 1938 in order to appreciate the genius and scientific contributions. >>You This side thread with you seems fallacious in a way, but that is okay. I respect you and think there is definitely a place in the world for people who do well in their careers and also worship their idols from history. You know, all of that said, don't you think it would be cool and maybe beneficial to the species if cloning technologies were perfected and experiments were done where genes like those responsible for the entity you know as Einstein were cloned, given new names, new lives, and such? I wonder what would happen. It would seem such experiments are indeed coming in the future, and I do not think the historical trivialities of one's life have much to do with this scientific curiousity that many a biologist wants to explore.
        throwawaygh 5y ago
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  Einstein is also a good example of a harsh critic of eugenics, both policies and underlying scientific theories.
  - champagnois 5y ago
    He was a critic of the pseudoscience and bigotry of the time. DNA wasn't even discovered yet. I suppose maybe we have a different set of definitions we are using. I do not view my stances as compatible with those of the time. When I think of eugenics, I think of Gattaca, CRISPR, cloning, saving lives, and gene therapy.
    - mrtranscendence 5y ago
      > When I think of eugenics, I think of Gattaca, CRISPR, cloning, saving lives, and gene therapy. You're entitled to your own mental states, but you're clearly not thinking the same thing that most people do when they think of "eugenics".
      - champagnois 5y ago
        I have read a few books that talk of eugenics in the way that I am describing it. Matt Ridley for example (genome book covers it on a chapter). Most discussions I have had on the topic with experts and such in their labs are usually in good faith with collective enthusiasm for what science can one day bring to humanity. It is only online that I encounter a sort of political extremism in opposition to the idea of leveraging what we know (of DNA) to make the world better.
        mrtranscendence 5y ago
        > Most discussions I have had on the topic with experts and such in their labs are usually in good faith with collective enthusiasm for what science can one day bring to humanity. I don't doubt that. What I doubt is that most experts would happily claim, even among friends, that what they're doing relates to "eugenics", which isn't just a sequence of letters that you can find in a dictionary. It's inextricably bound up with a very dark history. Consider why the Wikipedia article for eugenics isn't just a short one-sentence statement that eugenics is about increasing the occurrence of positive hereditable traits.
- dang 5y ago
  We ban accounts that post flamebait like this, and/or take HN threads further into flamewar (which you did a ton of in this thread). Would you please stop doing those things? We also ban accounts that use HN primarily for ideological battle, regardless of which ideology they're for or against, because that destroys the curious conversation this place is supposed to exist for. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
  - champagnois 5y ago
    I agree with your message and the purpose of it. There was no intention of conflict. I made some attempts to clarify that in the various responses, which mostly concluded with agreements.

champagnois 5y ago

Einstein is a good example of a rare genius that helped push the species forward. Not sure what you are even hinting at here? Do you hate his hair or something?

staticassertion 5y ago
Einstein opposed Nazi Germany (which aligned with eugenics) and outright rejected the idea of eugenics as a pursuit. I suspect he would be disgusted at the idea of being used as an exemplar for eugenics.
- champagnois 5y ago
  I don't think what I am talking about is quite the same thing. Perhaps it would be more diplomatic to call my stance here to be in favor of applied genetics. DNA the molecule of genetics was not yet discovered. I do think there is a lot of potential in the idea of, say, cloning someone like Einstein from samples that have been preserved. It would be very interesting to me if a nation state cloned such people and set them to work on modern problems of quantum physics. What could such people accomplish in their lifetime starting in the present with our current knowledge and proofs and technologies. well Einstein was against this idea of, you know, German pseudoscience, where they had these men going through mountains in the Middle East and measuring skulls and what have you, I do think applied genetics is a very different science.
  - throwawaygh 5y ago
    > Einstein... It would be very interesting to me if a nation state cloned such people and set them to work on modern problems of quantum physics. This thread just keeps getting better. Do you... I mean... you do know why this is funny, right?
    - champagnois 5y ago
      To be honest, no. No, I do not know why you find this so funny.
      - throwawaygh 5y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr%E2%80%93Einstein_debates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr%E2%80%93Einstein_debates You keep evoking Einstein in contexts that would have him rolling in his grave. Imagine raising Einstein from the dead to tell him that he's the standard bearer of eugenics and a version of quantum mechanics that was not in his image. It's humorous. You seem to know very little about science or its history but are quick to evoke scientism in defense of ideas that in actuality have very little to do with science.
        champagnois 5y ago
        >>Wiki Fun read and all. Thanks for that link. Very cool. >>You seem to know very little about science Einstein the person, the history of his life, etc are fully separate from contributions to science. Science is, generally, not about cults of personality, history, or any of that. I have a great appreciation, respect, gratefulness, passion, and enthusiasm for science, progress, and advancement of the species. One does not have to study the trivialities of how Einstein took his coffee or tea in 1938 in order to appreciate the genius and scientific contributions. >>You This side thread with you seems fallacious in a way, but that is okay. I respect you and think there is definitely a place in the world for people who do well in their careers and also worship their idols from history. You know, all of that said, don't you think it would be cool and maybe beneficial to the species if cloning technologies were perfected and experiments were done where genes like those responsible for the entity you know as Einstein were cloned, given new names, new lives, and such? I wonder what would happen. It would seem such experiments are indeed coming in the future, and I do not think the historical trivialities of one's life have much to do with this scientific curiousity that many a biologist wants to explore.
        throwawaygh 5y ago
throwawaygh 5y ago
Einstein is also a good example of a harsh critic of eugenics, both policies and underlying scientific theories.
- champagnois 5y ago
  He was a critic of the pseudoscience and bigotry of the time. DNA wasn't even discovered yet. I suppose maybe we have a different set of definitions we are using. I do not view my stances as compatible with those of the time. When I think of eugenics, I think of Gattaca, CRISPR, cloning, saving lives, and gene therapy.
  - mrtranscendence 5y ago
    > When I think of eugenics, I think of Gattaca, CRISPR, cloning, saving lives, and gene therapy. You're entitled to your own mental states, but you're clearly not thinking the same thing that most people do when they think of "eugenics".
    - champagnois 5y ago
      I have read a few books that talk of eugenics in the way that I am describing it. Matt Ridley for example (genome book covers it on a chapter). Most discussions I have had on the topic with experts and such in their labs are usually in good faith with collective enthusiasm for what science can one day bring to humanity. It is only online that I encounter a sort of political extremism in opposition to the idea of leveraging what we know (of DNA) to make the world better.
      - mrtranscendence 5y ago
        > Most discussions I have had on the topic with experts and such in their labs are usually in good faith with collective enthusiasm for what science can one day bring to humanity. I don't doubt that. What I doubt is that most experts would happily claim, even among friends, that what they're doing relates to "eugenics", which isn't just a sequence of letters that you can find in a dictionary. It's inextricably bound up with a very dark history. Consider why the Wikipedia article for eugenics isn't just a short one-sentence statement that eugenics is about increasing the occurrence of positive hereditable traits.
dang 5y ago
We ban accounts that post flamebait like this, and/or take HN threads further into flamewar (which you did a ton of in this thread). Would you please stop doing those things? We also ban accounts that use HN primarily for ideological battle, regardless of which ideology they're for or against, because that destroys the curious conversation this place is supposed to exist for. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
- champagnois 5y ago
  I agree with your message and the purpose of it. There was no intention of conflict. I made some attempts to clarify that in the various responses, which mostly concluded with agreements.