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This ignores the fact that while intelligence, however measured, has a large hereditable component, that inheritance is environmental, not genetic. The Flynn e

by pcrh 5y ago

This ignores the fact that while intelligence, however measured, has a large hereditable component, that inheritance is environmental, not genetic. The Flynn effect, which showed widespread gains in IQ scores without any alteration in population genetics is the clearest indication that very significant variations in IQ can occur as a consequence of environmental effects.

sanxiyn 5y ago
I agree. I think, just as Flynn effect was due to environment and not eugenics, loss of Flynn effect reported here is due to environment and not dysgenics. On the other hand, if you take Flynn effect seriously, you also should take loss of Flynn effect seriously.
notahacker 5y ago
James Flynn of Flynn effect fame is one of the authors of the paper, which makes the weakness of the conclusions all the more surprising. We've got paper showing rises in scores in the US, falls in Scandinavia and a sharp rise and fall over the space of of dozen years in Estonian boys and we're worrying about the possibility of 'dysgenic mating' and loss of those capable of higher level deductive reasoning abilities and not just concluding that comparing different cohorts taking the test isn't telling us very much? The most logical conclusion of the data presented in paper is that the test results is unstable between dissimilar environments to the extent we shouldn't really bother using it for comparisons between populations (as opposed to an extremely crude measure of relative abilities within a cohort, where it is generally better than other crude proxies for actual human capability), still less mourning real world losses of reasoning ability. Tbh I thought doubting the tests was the page Flynn was already on.
- pcrh 5y ago
  Agreed. Admittedly I only scanned the paper, however it did appear to attempt to compare a large number of disparate measures in different countries which makes teasing-out the valid comparisons quite a taxing task.... Nevertheless, from other reports in the past few years, it appears that the rises in IQ widely observed during the 20th century (the Flynn effect) have not continued into the 21st. This would possibly argue that improvements in childhood and general health were large contributors to the Flynn effect.

by pcrh 5y ago

sanxiyn 5y ago

I agree. I think, just as Flynn effect was due to environment and not eugenics, loss of Flynn effect reported here is due to environment and not dysgenics. On the other hand, if you take Flynn effect seriously, you also should take loss of Flynn effect seriously.

notahacker 5y ago

James Flynn of Flynn effect fame is one of the authors of the paper, which makes the weakness of the conclusions all the more surprising. We've got paper showing rises in scores in the US, falls in Scandinavia and a sharp rise and fall over the space of of dozen years in Estonian boys and we're worrying about the possibility of 'dysgenic mating' and loss of those capable of higher level deductive reasoning abilities and not just concluding that comparing different cohorts taking the test isn't telling us very much? The most logical conclusion of the data presented in paper is that the test results is unstable between dissimilar environments to the extent we shouldn't really bother using it for comparisons between populations (as opposed to an extremely crude measure of relative abilities within a cohort, where it is generally better than other crude proxies for actual human capability), still less mourning real world losses of reasoning ability. Tbh I thought doubting the tests was the page Flynn was already on.

pcrh 5y ago
Agreed. Admittedly I only scanned the paper, however it did appear to attempt to compare a large number of disparate measures in different countries which makes teasing-out the valid comparisons quite a taxing task.... Nevertheless, from other reports in the past few years, it appears that the rises in IQ widely observed during the 20th century (the Flynn effect) have not continued into the 21st. This would possibly argue that improvements in childhood and general health were large contributors to the Flynn effect.