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Ok, so maybe there is dangerous sparky stuff that can be reached in there - but it just shows poor design that they weren’t able to incorporate a frunk and/or i

Ok, so maybe there is dangerous sparky stuff that can be reached in there - but it just shows poor design that they weren’t able to incorporate a frunk and/or isolate/insulate those components to not make opening the hood deathly dangerous.

0_____0 5y ago
It doesn't really look like there's any exposed HV. I'm curious why they bothered to cover up the hood latch at all. I think there's a certain tradition wherein blokes will stand around a car with the hood open and poke at it, perhaps they're trying to discourage that.
serf 5y ago
I mean.. I guess? Every other manufacturer in the world has hot pipes & spinning fans & hand-grabbing belts under the hood with little done to prevent personal injury and it has worked fine for decades. The EV market just wants everything to 'trend Tesla', so they expect a 'frunk' and for everything to be totally unlike any other ICE car on the road.
- ajross 5y ago
  That's not right, the frunk is a very natural feature given the design constraints. You need at least some space in front of the console, because the wheel wells need to be forward of the cockpit so the front seat occupants have a place to put their feet. Traditionally you put the engine there, because it was an obvious empty spot. Cars that didn't generally made significant tradeoffs (like two seats) to accomodate a different engine placement. But if you've got no engine, what can go there? Not the battery, that works much (much) better as a flat planar thing at the very bottom of the frame. You can put the motor there, sure, but an electric motor is tiny. Add in the random electronics and wiper fluid and whatnot and you still have a ton of space. So you make it cargo. It works great. EVs that don't have a frunk (the ID.4, ahem) end up feeling like they're missing a feature.
  - kfor 5y ago
    And it’s not just that the wheel well needs to be in front of the passengers, but also the front crumple zone is very important to passenger safety in many of the most common crash scenarios.
- crad 5y ago
  I think of the VW Bug / Beetle when I think of frunks, is it mainly a Tesla thing now?
  - dreamcompiler 5y ago
    Only the old Beetles had a frunk. The newer ones (post 1997 models) all had the engine in the front and a trunk in the back.
Kapura 5y ago
The customer of a mercedes EQS is not losing a lot of sleep over missing a front trunk. their current s-class doesn't have one either and they somehow carry on.
- ajross 5y ago
  Right, but "carrying on" is pretty much apt, to anyone who's driven a car with a frunk. I mean, no, it's not like it's going to solve world hunger or create billions in value for a new startup ecosystem. But a frunk really is a pretty great idea.
  - avalys 5y ago
    The frunk in my Tesla Model 3 was too shallow to use to store anything (because the front motor was underneath) and the metal on the hood was so thin it felt like I was going to bend it every time I shut it. Pointless.
    - sho_hn 5y ago
      Some cars with frunks also have issues with them being an additional vector for road noise to impact the cabin, which is already an issue in EVs due to nothing being masked by ICE noise. That's certainly a solvable engineering problem (and Tesla has made changes in successive generations to try and improve the situation, for example), but the insulation/padding required further impacts the usable space. In any case, the EQS likely has the quietest interior of any EV to date.
    - ajross 5y ago
      Groceries? Jackets? Thanksgiving pot luck dishes you don't want to stink up the cabin? Muddy boots after a hike? Tire chains? Ice scraper? I guess everyone's different. To us it was a revelation.
      - avalys 5y ago
        Literally none of those would fit in the front trunk of my Model 3, except the ice scraper. See this pic: https://twitter.com/model3owners/status/891361384658763777 https://twitter.com/model3owners/status/891361384658763777 and note that it is shallower up front - that bag is just a few inches tall and it is nearly level with the latch. The fact that the shape is irregular, and the hood metal is so thin, also increases the chance you will accidentally bend the hood by trying to close it on an object that doesn't fit.
nucleardog 5y ago
> and/or isolate/insulate those components to not make opening the hood deathly dangerous. But... why? From the article, there is literally nothing under there that is "user servicable"--everything requires the HV system be placed in servicing mode first: HVDC inverters/converters and the motors. All user-serviceable components (e.g., fluid fill) are located elsewhere. Basically every vehicle design process is about value engineering. Who wants to pay extra for a car with extra safety features in a compartment that they will never open, have no reason to open, and can't do anything with once they open it?
- potatolicious 5y ago
  Not to mention, even if the car was designed with a frunk, the high-voltage components would still have to be serviceable somewhere - so there would still be a panel/door somewhere on the vehicle with a "Don't Touch" sign on it. Whether that's the hood of the car or somewhere else seems immaterial?
- tshaddox 5y ago
  I mean it would be pretty funny if they let you open the hood and had another layer of flat steel directly under it covering all the non-user-serviceable bits. Just to increase the weight and cost slightly and allow people to uncritically think “at least I can open the hood.”
sho_hn 5y ago
The EQS has a much larger and higher-performance HEPA air filter than most other cars available on the market, which is a standout feature in important target markets for the car (much more so than a frunk is standout, or lacking one for that matter). It's located under the front cover. It's also a hatch with a very sizable trunk (larger than the equivalent S-class). I'd say we're talking design trade-offs. :-) (Disclaimer: I work for Mercedes-Benz.)
- mulmen 5y ago
  Is the HEPA filter under the hood or can a user replace that themselves?
kehrin 5y ago
If there is no reason to open the hood, why would they waste time and money to design a system that makes it (more) accessible? Calling it a "poor design" makes it sound like it's inadequate, which I disagree with. I wouldn't call a car door "poorly designed" just because I can't take it apart without tools.
- newaccount74 5y ago
  People like opening the hood and looking at the bits under it. It's kind of weird that a premium car would go out of their way to prevent people from looking at it.

0_____0 5y ago

It doesn't really look like there's any exposed HV. I'm curious why they bothered to cover up the hood latch at all. I think there's a certain tradition wherein blokes will stand around a car with the hood open and poke at it, perhaps they're trying to discourage that.

serf 5y ago

I mean.. I guess? Every other manufacturer in the world has hot pipes & spinning fans & hand-grabbing belts under the hood with little done to prevent personal injury and it has worked fine for decades. The EV market just wants everything to 'trend Tesla', so they expect a 'frunk' and for everything to be totally unlike any other ICE car on the road.

ajross 5y ago
That's not right, the frunk is a very natural feature given the design constraints. You need at least some space in front of the console, because the wheel wells need to be forward of the cockpit so the front seat occupants have a place to put their feet. Traditionally you put the engine there, because it was an obvious empty spot. Cars that didn't generally made significant tradeoffs (like two seats) to accomodate a different engine placement. But if you've got no engine, what can go there? Not the battery, that works much (much) better as a flat planar thing at the very bottom of the frame. You can put the motor there, sure, but an electric motor is tiny. Add in the random electronics and wiper fluid and whatnot and you still have a ton of space. So you make it cargo. It works great. EVs that don't have a frunk (the ID.4, ahem) end up feeling like they're missing a feature.
- kfor 5y ago
  And it’s not just that the wheel well needs to be in front of the passengers, but also the front crumple zone is very important to passenger safety in many of the most common crash scenarios.
crad 5y ago
I think of the VW Bug / Beetle when I think of frunks, is it mainly a Tesla thing now?
- dreamcompiler 5y ago
  Only the old Beetles had a frunk. The newer ones (post 1997 models) all had the engine in the front and a trunk in the back.

Kapura 5y ago

The customer of a mercedes EQS is not losing a lot of sleep over missing a front trunk. their current s-class doesn't have one either and they somehow carry on.

ajross 5y ago
Right, but "carrying on" is pretty much apt, to anyone who's driven a car with a frunk. I mean, no, it's not like it's going to solve world hunger or create billions in value for a new startup ecosystem. But a frunk really is a pretty great idea.
- avalys 5y ago
  The frunk in my Tesla Model 3 was too shallow to use to store anything (because the front motor was underneath) and the metal on the hood was so thin it felt like I was going to bend it every time I shut it. Pointless.
  - sho_hn 5y ago
    Some cars with frunks also have issues with them being an additional vector for road noise to impact the cabin, which is already an issue in EVs due to nothing being masked by ICE noise. That's certainly a solvable engineering problem (and Tesla has made changes in successive generations to try and improve the situation, for example), but the insulation/padding required further impacts the usable space. In any case, the EQS likely has the quietest interior of any EV to date.
  - ajross 5y ago
    Groceries? Jackets? Thanksgiving pot luck dishes you don't want to stink up the cabin? Muddy boots after a hike? Tire chains? Ice scraper? I guess everyone's different. To us it was a revelation.
    - avalys 5y ago
      Literally none of those would fit in the front trunk of my Model 3, except the ice scraper. See this pic: https://twitter.com/model3owners/status/891361384658763777 https://twitter.com/model3owners/status/891361384658763777 and note that it is shallower up front - that bag is just a few inches tall and it is nearly level with the latch. The fact that the shape is irregular, and the hood metal is so thin, also increases the chance you will accidentally bend the hood by trying to close it on an object that doesn't fit.

nucleardog 5y ago

> and/or isolate/insulate those components to not make opening the hood deathly dangerous. But... why? From the article, there is literally nothing under there that is "user servicable"--everything requires the HV system be placed in servicing mode first: HVDC inverters/converters and the motors. All user-serviceable components (e.g., fluid fill) are located elsewhere. Basically every vehicle design process is about value engineering. Who wants to pay extra for a car with extra safety features in a compartment that they will never open, have no reason to open, and can't do anything with once they open it?

potatolicious 5y ago
Not to mention, even if the car was designed with a frunk, the high-voltage components would still have to be serviceable somewhere - so there would still be a panel/door somewhere on the vehicle with a "Don't Touch" sign on it. Whether that's the hood of the car or somewhere else seems immaterial?
tshaddox 5y ago
I mean it would be pretty funny if they let you open the hood and had another layer of flat steel directly under it covering all the non-user-serviceable bits. Just to increase the weight and cost slightly and allow people to uncritically think “at least I can open the hood.”

sho_hn 5y ago

The EQS has a much larger and higher-performance HEPA air filter than most other cars available on the market, which is a standout feature in important target markets for the car (much more so than a frunk is standout, or lacking one for that matter). It's located under the front cover. It's also a hatch with a very sizable trunk (larger than the equivalent S-class). I'd say we're talking design trade-offs. :-) (Disclaimer: I work for Mercedes-Benz.)

mulmen 5y ago
Is the HEPA filter under the hood or can a user replace that themselves?

kehrin 5y ago

If there is no reason to open the hood, why would they waste time and money to design a system that makes it (more) accessible? Calling it a "poor design" makes it sound like it's inadequate, which I disagree with. I wouldn't call a car door "poorly designed" just because I can't take it apart without tools.

newaccount74 5y ago
People like opening the hood and looking at the bits under it. It's kind of weird that a premium car would go out of their way to prevent people from looking at it.