3 ms·

I'm not sure it's a good example, really. It's an "exact phrase search" with quotes, which doesn't happen much in real life. It was helpful solely to show wha

by tyingq 5y ago

I'm not sure it's a good example, really. It's an "exact phrase search" with quotes, which doesn't happen much in real life. It was helpful solely to show what some of these leech sites are. Searching for (without quotes): What does if __name__ == "__main__": do? Is probably a better test of which search engine has better results for the real-life query. Google might still win, but it should do a better job of screening out the spammy sites. It used to be better at this.

endisneigh 5y ago
All the search engines have seen massive increases in SEO and consequently, spam. Do you believe Google et al isn’t working on it? It’s obviously a very difficult problem.
- tyingq 5y ago
  I believe they've become more complacent since there is no competitive pressure, yes.
  - endisneigh 5y ago
    I don't know, a lot of people have claimed this but no one has any proof.
    - tyingq 5y ago
      What would proof be? Over a period of time, they have clearly de-prioritized organic search results by pushing them down the page with ads, widgets, and so on. They used to engage more directly with content producers. Matt Cutts was often called the "Head of Web Spam". When he left, they dissolved his role and spread it around to several other people.
      - endisneigh 5y ago
        Your claim regarding deprioritized search results for example - where’s the proof? If what you are saying is true it should be trivial to give sample queries so we can test across all search engines and see if it’s true.
        tyingq 5y ago
        "Deprioritized" means moved down the fold of the page. Like, for example, the 3-4 ads at the top that used to not be there. And various other widgets that used to not be there. Ads in SERPS started out in the right hand sidebar only. Such that organic results were at the top. They were slowly moved down over time by a slow rollout of more ads and widgets. There are many queries now with ZERO organic results above the page fold. None of this is in dispute, so I don't feel compelled to dredge up old screenshots or examples. Comparing the page layout to competitors isn't especially helpful when Google has 90%+ market share in search. Google is defining the standard for others.
        endisneigh 5y ago
        Why don't you give any examples of these queries? There's no point in comparing to say, 2008 Google, there are many of orders of magnitudes more sites. You can't expect old algorithms to keep up. The main thing that matters is how long it takes to find what you're looking for. Can't say I really get your point. You're willing to complain and go on this long tirade, but not to give a single query example? The one you gave in your original post was already debunked easily enough. You're saying these things as if they are a fact - I disagree with you, it is in dispute. If we're going to just take random claims are facts, then I'll say Google's results are better than ever. Google's market share isn't really relevant. It's very easy to just use Bing or any other search engine. I actually use Bing half of the time since it offers rewards.
        tyingq 5y ago
        I didn't give any query to be debunked. I gave an example of a query to see the copycat sites. It does that just fine. Re-read it with some benefit of the doubt maybe? Your rant seems to be based on the idea that my upthread post was something that it wasn't. I did note that one copycat site was ranking above SO, but that was secondary. As for a query with a shit ton of ads and widgets? Try vegas hotels, or anything else with lots of widgets and ads. The travel space has a lot of them.
  - not2b 5y ago
    I doubt it. If their results become noticeably worse than Bing (and therefore DDG) results, people will start to switch. But Bing is having the same problems with the crap sites. So they at least have to keep their quality even with the competition for the average person (HN readers are not the average person).
    - tyingq 5y ago
      That matches what I said, really. "Better than current-day Bing" is a much lower bar than they used to shoot for.
      - endisneigh 5y ago
        Bing has always been very comparable to Google. Especially in certain niches. For example bing was better for social in 2010: https://www.eweek.com/news/microsoft-bing-beat-google-in-social-in-2010-analysts/ https://www.eweek.com/news/microsoft-bing-beat-google-in-soc...

by tyingq 5y ago

endisneigh 5y ago

All the search engines have seen massive increases in SEO and consequently, spam. Do you believe Google et al isn’t working on it? It’s obviously a very difficult problem.

tyingq 5y ago
I believe they've become more complacent since there is no competitive pressure, yes.
- endisneigh 5y ago
  I don't know, a lot of people have claimed this but no one has any proof.
  - tyingq 5y ago
    What would proof be? Over a period of time, they have clearly de-prioritized organic search results by pushing them down the page with ads, widgets, and so on. They used to engage more directly with content producers. Matt Cutts was often called the "Head of Web Spam". When he left, they dissolved his role and spread it around to several other people.
    - endisneigh 5y ago
      Your claim regarding deprioritized search results for example - where’s the proof? If what you are saying is true it should be trivial to give sample queries so we can test across all search engines and see if it’s true.
      - tyingq 5y ago
        "Deprioritized" means moved down the fold of the page. Like, for example, the 3-4 ads at the top that used to not be there. And various other widgets that used to not be there. Ads in SERPS started out in the right hand sidebar only. Such that organic results were at the top. They were slowly moved down over time by a slow rollout of more ads and widgets. There are many queries now with ZERO organic results above the page fold. None of this is in dispute, so I don't feel compelled to dredge up old screenshots or examples. Comparing the page layout to competitors isn't especially helpful when Google has 90%+ market share in search. Google is defining the standard for others.
        endisneigh 5y ago
        Why don't you give any examples of these queries? There's no point in comparing to say, 2008 Google, there are many of orders of magnitudes more sites. You can't expect old algorithms to keep up. The main thing that matters is how long it takes to find what you're looking for. Can't say I really get your point. You're willing to complain and go on this long tirade, but not to give a single query example? The one you gave in your original post was already debunked easily enough. You're saying these things as if they are a fact - I disagree with you, it is in dispute. If we're going to just take random claims are facts, then I'll say Google's results are better than ever. Google's market share isn't really relevant. It's very easy to just use Bing or any other search engine. I actually use Bing half of the time since it offers rewards.
        tyingq 5y ago
        I didn't give any query to be debunked. I gave an example of a query to see the copycat sites. It does that just fine. Re-read it with some benefit of the doubt maybe? Your rant seems to be based on the idea that my upthread post was something that it wasn't. I did note that one copycat site was ranking above SO, but that was secondary. As for a query with a shit ton of ads and widgets? Try vegas hotels, or anything else with lots of widgets and ads. The travel space has a lot of them.
- not2b 5y ago
  I doubt it. If their results become noticeably worse than Bing (and therefore DDG) results, people will start to switch. But Bing is having the same problems with the crap sites. So they at least have to keep their quality even with the competition for the average person (HN readers are not the average person).
  - tyingq 5y ago
    That matches what I said, really. "Better than current-day Bing" is a much lower bar than they used to shoot for.
    - endisneigh 5y ago
      Bing has always been very comparable to Google. Especially in certain niches. For example bing was better for social in 2010: https://www.eweek.com/news/microsoft-bing-beat-google-in-social-in-2010-analysts/ https://www.eweek.com/news/microsoft-bing-beat-google-in-soc...