3 ms·

Disney Star Wars however was by far the most blatant example. The sequel trilogy had no overarching plan at all. The Directors were free to make whatever story

Disney Star Wars however was by far the most blatant example. The sequel trilogy had no overarching plan at all. The Directors were free to make whatever story they wanted. This of course ended terribly in Episode 8 when Johnson single-handedly destroyed everything Abrams had put in place and left him nothing to go on for the finale.

mschuster91 5y ago
Which is kinda sad given that Disney as an organization should be aware how much good storytelling and a "cohesion team" is for the importance of an universe, given their experiences with the MCU. Even the Star Wars expanded universe was carefully and competently taken care of prior the acquisition - so many books and yet so little inconsistencies. Then Disney decided to throw all of the decades of worldbuilding away for three shitty plots and an endless lot of Rey-based Rule 34 material. The Star Trek reboot quality is similarly questionable, but at least they didn't simply go ahead and un-canon all existing works.
- ourmandave 5y ago
  ...and an endless lot of Rey-based Rule 34 material. Good on ya to point out the silver lining.
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    I actually had to find something I was happy about. Han Solo murdered, Luke and Leia getting sacrificed, for a shitty Palpatine clone of all things? What a disgrace of a chaos of a plot! ETA: not to mention, the "character dies and gets reborn" plot was already questionable in TCW (where Darth Maul was revealed to have survived being sliced in half by Qui-Gon Jinn in Episode 1), but that one at least had a decent bit of usage... Palpatine's appearance was mostly the reveal at the end on Exegol, a fight and his (hopefully final...) death. The only way I can see any future films being set is somewhere between the trilogies (there's more than enough to be explained between EP3/4 or between 6/7) or an alternative-timeline reboot happening after EP6 (or maaaaybe but difficult given the deaths of primary actors, a timeline split caused by the destruction of that superlaser planet).
- aspenmayer 5y ago
  I like the Star Trek reboots, but respecting the lore is not their strong suit. https://youtube.com/watch?v=aSrSBBLLtYc https://youtube.com/watch?v=aSrSBBLLtYc
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    I'm a tiny bit out of date regarding ST continuity (lost interest after the end of DS9 and the death of Data in Nemesis) so please correct me if I mess up my time travel or don't get the meme, but the split in the timeline of the reboot happened in the early days of the Kirk captaincy while Discovery is set ten years before TOS... which means all the interactions of the TNG/DS9/VOY episodes with Q didn't have happened yet in the timeline of the first two Discovery seasons and at all in the future of Seasons 3ff? (Seriously, time travel as a concept is annoying, especially when everyone uses their own version of how it works!)
    - aspenmayer 5y ago
      I thought Q Continuum and Q as individuals existed outside of normal spacetime, although I do like the line of reasoning you have traced.
      - mschuster91 5y ago
        Urgh, yes. Completely forgot about that part... Q can technically be used to retcon every difference, by a simple act of Q. A snip and whatever is wrong didn't even happen, or it happened in a multi-verse (we have evidence for the existence of at least one, the infamous Mirror Universe... one of my least favorite plot devices).
        aspenmayer 5y ago
        Mirror Universe is so fun, though! It gave us classics like Mirror Riker. I thought the Mirror Universe in Discovery was very well done, without spoiling anything.
kemayo 5y ago
I dunno, I think it's more accurate to say that it ended terribly in Episode 9 when Abrams returned, shrugged, and ignored everything that had happened in 8. The film where we were given the phrase "somehow Palpatine returned"... :D All symptoms of staggering mismanagement by Disney, of course. A trilogy with a stupid planned plot arc would have been better than the sequence of "solid but uninspired Star Wars throwback" + "interesting and out there reinterpretation of the mythos" + "but what if RotJ again but dumber?"

mschuster91 5y ago

Which is kinda sad given that Disney as an organization should be aware how much good storytelling and a "cohesion team" is for the importance of an universe, given their experiences with the MCU. Even the Star Wars expanded universe was carefully and competently taken care of prior the acquisition - so many books and yet so little inconsistencies. Then Disney decided to throw all of the decades of worldbuilding away for three shitty plots and an endless lot of Rey-based Rule 34 material. The Star Trek reboot quality is similarly questionable, but at least they didn't simply go ahead and un-canon all existing works.

ourmandave 5y ago
...and an endless lot of Rey-based Rule 34 material. Good on ya to point out the silver lining.
- mschuster91 5y ago
  I actually had to find something I was happy about. Han Solo murdered, Luke and Leia getting sacrificed, for a shitty Palpatine clone of all things? What a disgrace of a chaos of a plot! ETA: not to mention, the "character dies and gets reborn" plot was already questionable in TCW (where Darth Maul was revealed to have survived being sliced in half by Qui-Gon Jinn in Episode 1), but that one at least had a decent bit of usage... Palpatine's appearance was mostly the reveal at the end on Exegol, a fight and his (hopefully final...) death. The only way I can see any future films being set is somewhere between the trilogies (there's more than enough to be explained between EP3/4 or between 6/7) or an alternative-timeline reboot happening after EP6 (or maaaaybe but difficult given the deaths of primary actors, a timeline split caused by the destruction of that superlaser planet).
aspenmayer 5y ago
I like the Star Trek reboots, but respecting the lore is not their strong suit. https://youtube.com/watch?v=aSrSBBLLtYc https://youtube.com/watch?v=aSrSBBLLtYc
- mschuster91 5y ago
  I'm a tiny bit out of date regarding ST continuity (lost interest after the end of DS9 and the death of Data in Nemesis) so please correct me if I mess up my time travel or don't get the meme, but the split in the timeline of the reboot happened in the early days of the Kirk captaincy while Discovery is set ten years before TOS... which means all the interactions of the TNG/DS9/VOY episodes with Q didn't have happened yet in the timeline of the first two Discovery seasons and at all in the future of Seasons 3ff? (Seriously, time travel as a concept is annoying, especially when everyone uses their own version of how it works!)
  - aspenmayer 5y ago
    I thought Q Continuum and Q as individuals existed outside of normal spacetime, although I do like the line of reasoning you have traced.
    - mschuster91 5y ago
      Urgh, yes. Completely forgot about that part... Q can technically be used to retcon every difference, by a simple act of Q. A snip and whatever is wrong didn't even happen, or it happened in a multi-verse (we have evidence for the existence of at least one, the infamous Mirror Universe... one of my least favorite plot devices).
      - aspenmayer 5y ago
        Mirror Universe is so fun, though! It gave us classics like Mirror Riker. I thought the Mirror Universe in Discovery was very well done, without spoiling anything.

kemayo 5y ago

I dunno, I think it's more accurate to say that it ended terribly in Episode 9 when Abrams returned, shrugged, and ignored everything that had happened in 8. The film where we were given the phrase "somehow Palpatine returned"... :D All symptoms of staggering mismanagement by Disney, of course. A trilogy with a stupid planned plot arc would have been better than the sequence of "solid but uninspired Star Wars throwback" + "interesting and out there reinterpretation of the mythos" + "but what if RotJ again but dumber?"