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Does (2) ever actually work ? From what I've seen people very rarely recognize problems they have that have potential software solutions. If this weren't the

Does (2) ever actually work ? From what I've seen people very rarely recognize problems they have that have potential software solutions. If this weren't the case why aren't there websites where people are posting problems they need solved and HN posts titled "Please solve this..." ? I have a friend who runs an SME and some time ago I sent him an email with some very general ideas about categories of problems I might be able to help him solve. I never got a response to that email (though I continue to be in contact with him on other subjects).

davismwfl 5y ago
It does work, the key is you have to do more than send a text or email or just call someone (not picking on you, just my own personal lesson). You have to talk to people about their business and see what is happening. This is literally how I built 2 different companies in different spaces over the years (neither of which I own now). One thing you can do, and I used, was I was consulting as a way to identify problems in spaces I was active in and had knowledge around. It isn't that you can't guess a product and sell it, the chances just get lower and lower unless it is a pain point you know affects people willing to pay for it. Or you have significant R&D funds and you can spend them to iterate to a solution. I've got a notebook I keep of issues/ideas I hear people complain/talk about and I explore topics with people when I can to see what might be interesting & real. I have tons of ideas in there, likely 90% (or more) would be fun to build but be worthless as a business or even a side project (at least right now). That's why talking to people is so critical. If you have a good idea take it to potential clients and try to sell it, if they bite then you potentially have something, but do that before you build a whole system. The reason why I say this too is I've tried to start a side project based on something I thought was important and it was depressing when no one saw what I saw (outside of friends who gave friend type validation) and then that killed my interest. But instead when you go to 20 businesses and 10-15 say yes that would be good and it is worth $XXX to me each day/week/month/quarter or whatever then you have motivation to keep working it. Getting some form of validation is motivating to most people, so it helps keep you moving even when things aren't going great.
- tgflynn 5y ago
  > It does work, the key is you have to do more than send a text or email or just call someone (not picking on you, just my own personal lesson). You have to talk to people about their business and see what is happening. How exactly is emailing/texting/phoning different from "talking to people" ? This question seems particularly significant in the covid era when opportunities for face to face contact are a bit limited. Also, as for me personally, I have a major mobility related disability so getting around much in physical space is now very difficult. > One thing you can do, and I used, was I was consulting as a way to identify problems in spaces I was active in and had knowledge around. Yes, I've always suspected that getting good ideas about a problem domain usually requires you to actually be doing some kind of work in that field. > I have tons of ideas in there, likely 90% (or more) would be fun to build but be worthless as a business or even a side project (at least right now). That's why talking to people is so critical. What is it that makes 90% of the ideas worthless ? Is it just too small a market, not impactful enough to the bottom line, or do you have other criteria for making that call ?
  - davismwfl 5y ago
    What I found is with texting and emailing is that people get distracted and you aren't getting their full attention, if at all -- very easy for them to ignore you or drop you into spam. You need peoples focus to be able to talk through things rapid style, back and forth. The issue with phone calls generally that I've had is you are not a priority because you aren't physically in front of them so they will quickly dump a pre-sales type call and may never get back to you again or tell their staff to put you on eternal ignore (fun times). I do think with Covid using video has become so much more natural you could use that and keep peoples focus better. But for me I always found that you are the least important person they are talking to until you show them you are worth talking to. Sounds harsh but sales sucks for that, and pre-sales exploration (e.g. business dev) can be even harder at first. So a lot of times being in person is the best way I've found, maybe others have found other ways. FWIW, I've used all kinds of ways to get peoples attention as well, buying them lunch, sending lunch to their team in exchange for an hour of their time etc. I've found if you give them something people feel more obligated to give you their dedicated time, so it can help, and if you have mobility restrictions it might be worth experimenting here. As for most of the ideas, most boil down to who the clients would be, what the cost to develop is, what they would be willing to pay and how much support and on-going maintenance it would take to make it profitable. Some combination of those is the root cause most stay as an idea until there is some situation that can show a path forward. One of my personal biggest mistakes I had to overcome was I would create a product and not consider the training, maintenance and support costs early on. To a certain point that is ok, especially if you have funding, but if bootstrapped it can be a much larger factor in your plan (especially if you dislike doing support). With scale/funding you can bring those costs in line pretty quick as you grow but if you are bootstrapped it can be much harder.
danielmarkbruce 5y ago
Probably not. It's a cute idea which doesn't hold water.
schwartzworld 5y ago
This to me is the biggest argument that programming is a core competency and should be treated as such. Whenever I suggest this to people, they often say something along the lines of why would I need to code if I'm not going to be a software developer. To me this is a little like saying, why should I learn to write unless I'm going to be a professional writer. Lots of jobs benefit from being able to write, and even if you dig ditches for a living, there are still a lot of advantages to being able to write well. Writing can be a hobby, a way to socialize, a way to preserve your own knowledge. I have entire interpersonal relationships that only exist in writing. Programming is the same. It's the doorway to lots of different hobbies and careers, but most people have no clue exactly how many doors it opens. They grossly overestimate the easy part of building software (writing code) and undervalue domain expertise. In other words, it would be easier for a lawyer to learn to build software than for a software dev to study law.
- smarri 5y ago
  I agree
35mm 5y ago
An alternative to 2. is: what is something that people already pay for, but have a lot of frustrations with. How to find this out: - Pay attention in everyday life to what people say about products they use - Read the comments on Facebook ads for products - Read reviews - Join Facebook groups and forums for specific niches that interest you, see what people are struggling to achieve with existing tools
- davismwfl 5y ago
  Totally agree, I do this as well, and actually quite often. I've written down ideas I've heard people talking about during their lunch break at Panera Bread and researched it later. I've even stopped someone and asked them about an issue that I overheard them talking about in line. I also agree that it is sometimes easier/better to improve on something that is already in the market that has proven need but just isn't hitting the mark totally. Though this can be hard cause sometimes there are really valid reasons it isn't hitting the mark and moving people off a platform can be hard even if it is flawed. Also another challenge here is you may have to hit feature parity before people are willing to try your new solution, which can take a lot more time and effort, but not always.
vb6sp6 5y ago

davismwfl 5y ago

It does work, the key is you have to do more than send a text or email or just call someone (not picking on you, just my own personal lesson). You have to talk to people about their business and see what is happening. This is literally how I built 2 different companies in different spaces over the years (neither of which I own now). One thing you can do, and I used, was I was consulting as a way to identify problems in spaces I was active in and had knowledge around. It isn't that you can't guess a product and sell it, the chances just get lower and lower unless it is a pain point you know affects people willing to pay for it. Or you have significant R&D funds and you can spend them to iterate to a solution. I've got a notebook I keep of issues/ideas I hear people complain/talk about and I explore topics with people when I can to see what might be interesting & real. I have tons of ideas in there, likely 90% (or more) would be fun to build but be worthless as a business or even a side project (at least right now). That's why talking to people is so critical. If you have a good idea take it to potential clients and try to sell it, if they bite then you potentially have something, but do that before you build a whole system. The reason why I say this too is I've tried to start a side project based on something I thought was important and it was depressing when no one saw what I saw (outside of friends who gave friend type validation) and then that killed my interest. But instead when you go to 20 businesses and 10-15 say yes that would be good and it is worth $XXX to me each day/week/month/quarter or whatever then you have motivation to keep working it. Getting some form of validation is motivating to most people, so it helps keep you moving even when things aren't going great.

tgflynn 5y ago
> It does work, the key is you have to do more than send a text or email or just call someone (not picking on you, just my own personal lesson). You have to talk to people about their business and see what is happening. How exactly is emailing/texting/phoning different from "talking to people" ? This question seems particularly significant in the covid era when opportunities for face to face contact are a bit limited. Also, as for me personally, I have a major mobility related disability so getting around much in physical space is now very difficult. > One thing you can do, and I used, was I was consulting as a way to identify problems in spaces I was active in and had knowledge around. Yes, I've always suspected that getting good ideas about a problem domain usually requires you to actually be doing some kind of work in that field. > I have tons of ideas in there, likely 90% (or more) would be fun to build but be worthless as a business or even a side project (at least right now). That's why talking to people is so critical. What is it that makes 90% of the ideas worthless ? Is it just too small a market, not impactful enough to the bottom line, or do you have other criteria for making that call ?
- davismwfl 5y ago
  What I found is with texting and emailing is that people get distracted and you aren't getting their full attention, if at all -- very easy for them to ignore you or drop you into spam. You need peoples focus to be able to talk through things rapid style, back and forth. The issue with phone calls generally that I've had is you are not a priority because you aren't physically in front of them so they will quickly dump a pre-sales type call and may never get back to you again or tell their staff to put you on eternal ignore (fun times). I do think with Covid using video has become so much more natural you could use that and keep peoples focus better. But for me I always found that you are the least important person they are talking to until you show them you are worth talking to. Sounds harsh but sales sucks for that, and pre-sales exploration (e.g. business dev) can be even harder at first. So a lot of times being in person is the best way I've found, maybe others have found other ways. FWIW, I've used all kinds of ways to get peoples attention as well, buying them lunch, sending lunch to their team in exchange for an hour of their time etc. I've found if you give them something people feel more obligated to give you their dedicated time, so it can help, and if you have mobility restrictions it might be worth experimenting here. As for most of the ideas, most boil down to who the clients would be, what the cost to develop is, what they would be willing to pay and how much support and on-going maintenance it would take to make it profitable. Some combination of those is the root cause most stay as an idea until there is some situation that can show a path forward. One of my personal biggest mistakes I had to overcome was I would create a product and not consider the training, maintenance and support costs early on. To a certain point that is ok, especially if you have funding, but if bootstrapped it can be a much larger factor in your plan (especially if you dislike doing support). With scale/funding you can bring those costs in line pretty quick as you grow but if you are bootstrapped it can be much harder.

danielmarkbruce 5y ago

Probably not. It's a cute idea which doesn't hold water.

schwartzworld 5y ago

This to me is the biggest argument that programming is a core competency and should be treated as such. Whenever I suggest this to people, they often say something along the lines of why would I need to code if I'm not going to be a software developer. To me this is a little like saying, why should I learn to write unless I'm going to be a professional writer. Lots of jobs benefit from being able to write, and even if you dig ditches for a living, there are still a lot of advantages to being able to write well. Writing can be a hobby, a way to socialize, a way to preserve your own knowledge. I have entire interpersonal relationships that only exist in writing. Programming is the same. It's the doorway to lots of different hobbies and careers, but most people have no clue exactly how many doors it opens. They grossly overestimate the easy part of building software (writing code) and undervalue domain expertise. In other words, it would be easier for a lawyer to learn to build software than for a software dev to study law.

smarri 5y ago
I agree

35mm 5y ago

An alternative to 2. is: what is something that people already pay for, but have a lot of frustrations with. How to find this out: - Pay attention in everyday life to what people say about products they use - Read the comments on Facebook ads for products - Read reviews - Join Facebook groups and forums for specific niches that interest you, see what people are struggling to achieve with existing tools

davismwfl 5y ago
Totally agree, I do this as well, and actually quite often. I've written down ideas I've heard people talking about during their lunch break at Panera Bread and researched it later. I've even stopped someone and asked them about an issue that I overheard them talking about in line. I also agree that it is sometimes easier/better to improve on something that is already in the market that has proven need but just isn't hitting the mark totally. Though this can be hard cause sometimes there are really valid reasons it isn't hitting the mark and moving people off a platform can be hard even if it is flawed. Also another challenge here is you may have to hit feature parity before people are willing to try your new solution, which can take a lot more time and effort, but not always.

vb6sp6 5y ago