5 ms·

I don't think it's just about biotech startups. I think the obvious distinction here is that her behavior put lives at risk fairly directly. Theranos was admini

I don't think it's just about biotech startups. I think the obvious distinction here is that her behavior put lives at risk fairly directly. Theranos was administering blood tests to a large number of people in a beta program. These tests were incomplete and inaccurate. Said tests were used to monitor the status/recurrence of cancers and other conditions like diabetes. If you similarly put people's lives or safety in danger with an AI startup somehow (with enough of a lack of ethics, this might be possible), you too could be eligible to win an all expenses paid vacation.

dpierce9 5y ago
“This case was specifically about what Holmes told Theranos investors, although her lies also impacted partners and patients.” This had nothing to do with patients though I am sure the patient angle helped underscore the lies to investors.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  The actual convictions didn't have anything to do with patients, but if there hadn't been a direct human safety aspect to this then I doubt it would have received as much attention, and maybe not even prosecution. I really don't think much would have happened to her if this had been an AI startup claiming to use ground breaking techniques (black box) to achieve nearly general purpose AI, when in fact they were just using bog standard methods in xgboost or TensorFlow.
merpnderp 5y ago
They weren't also testing these people with approved methods? Who would sign up for that and how is that legal or ethical? Even if she hadn't been lying these people were gambling their lives against the success of her company.
- fourseventy 5y ago
  Exactly, that is why she is in so much trouble
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    To be fair, a big reason she probably wasn't convicted on the patient fraud charges (she took the investor fraud charges) was because one of the things she lied about was not testing people with Theranos methods. I.e. what Theranos said "We're testing you using our novel testing systems" vs what Theranos was actually doing "We're testing you using a standard test system" So, most people who got Theranos tests were lied to, but in a way with a more positive outcome for them.
- ted_dunning 5y ago
  > weren't also testing these people with approved methods? Often not and which method used wasn't disclosed so test results couldn't be sanitized. > Who would sign up for that? Somebody who was lied to. > and how is that legal or ethical? It is neither legal or ethical. > Even if she hadn't been lying these people were gambling their lives You are exactly correct. People were gambling their lives unwittingly.

dpierce9 5y ago

“This case was specifically about what Holmes told Theranos investors, although her lies also impacted partners and patients.” This had nothing to do with patients though I am sure the patient angle helped underscore the lies to investors.

ineedasername 5y ago
The actual convictions didn't have anything to do with patients, but if there hadn't been a direct human safety aspect to this then I doubt it would have received as much attention, and maybe not even prosecution. I really don't think much would have happened to her if this had been an AI startup claiming to use ground breaking techniques (black box) to achieve nearly general purpose AI, when in fact they were just using bog standard methods in xgboost or TensorFlow.

merpnderp 5y ago

They weren't also testing these people with approved methods? Who would sign up for that and how is that legal or ethical? Even if she hadn't been lying these people were gambling their lives against the success of her company.

fourseventy 5y ago
Exactly, that is why she is in so much trouble
- ethbr0 5y ago
  To be fair, a big reason she probably wasn't convicted on the patient fraud charges (she took the investor fraud charges) was because one of the things she lied about was not testing people with Theranos methods. I.e. what Theranos said "We're testing you using our novel testing systems" vs what Theranos was actually doing "We're testing you using a standard test system" So, most people who got Theranos tests were lied to, but in a way with a more positive outcome for them.
ted_dunning 5y ago
> weren't also testing these people with approved methods? Often not and which method used wasn't disclosed so test results couldn't be sanitized. > Who would sign up for that? Somebody who was lied to. > and how is that legal or ethical? It is neither legal or ethical. > Even if she hadn't been lying these people were gambling their lives You are exactly correct. People were gambling their lives unwittingly.