4 ms·

I find that in the past few years I encounter more people (native English speakers) who intentionally pronounce the T in often. I notice that several are NPR co

I find that in the past few years I encounter more people (native English speakers) who intentionally pronounce the T in often. I notice that several are NPR correspondents, which makes me think some are saying it to "sound smart". It's funny, really.

yeldarb 5y ago
If you don’t pronounce the “t” in “often”, how do you pronounce “oft”?
- jazzyjackson 5y ago
  what kind of hoighty-toighty high-falutin podcast-producer uses the word "oft" in spoken english?
  - selimthegrim 5y ago
    Oft-injured, oft-changing...
- tdeck 5y ago
  If you don't pronounce the "t" in "listen", how do you pronounce "list"?
toyg 5y ago
> some are saying it to "sound smart". It's funny, really. You're implying that traditional, complex, and arbitrary pronounciations should be considered "smarter" than logical, simpler, and hence modern ones because...? Pronounciation is a inherently classist concept; the harder you make it, the more you entrench classism and intolerance into society. Regardless of the motivation for such correspondents to use a modern form, I personally would applaud it as progress, rather than sneering at it.
- kerneloftruth 5y ago
  Do you pronounce the T in "soften"... maybe you use fabric "sof-ten-er"? Do you have a brush with "bris-tels"? Those would be more inclusive and modern pronunciations? "I personally would applaud it as progress" One man's progress is another man's regress. Maybe it's the result of the "Hooked on Phonics" generation having grown up.
  - toyg 5y ago
    > Do you pronounce the T in "soften" Yes, but I'm not a native speaker, so I have the privilege of seeing the matter from a more neutral perspective. And what I see, when it comes to pronounciations, is that traditionalism is largely illogical, and maintained simply as a way to signal exclusion. It looks harmless on some levels (i.e. figuring out whether somebody is "local" by the way they pronounce certain topological names), but more often than not it's just used to discriminate between education-rich and education-poor, which then translates into straightforward classism where educational systems are deeply and fundamentally classist (like in England or the US). > Those would be more inclusive and modern pronunciations? Yes. > One man's progress is another man's regress. For sure. After all, a few Catholics were ecstatic when pope Benedict XVI reinstated and promoted saying mass in Latin, effectively trying to revert a century of progress. But fighting actual and logical progress tends to be a losing proposition in the long run, and that particular movement kinda died off quickly.

yeldarb 5y ago

If you don’t pronounce the “t” in “often”, how do you pronounce “oft”?

jazzyjackson 5y ago
what kind of hoighty-toighty high-falutin podcast-producer uses the word "oft" in spoken english?
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  Oft-injured, oft-changing...
tdeck 5y ago
If you don't pronounce the "t" in "listen", how do you pronounce "list"?

toyg 5y ago

> some are saying it to "sound smart". It's funny, really. You're implying that traditional, complex, and arbitrary pronounciations should be considered "smarter" than logical, simpler, and hence modern ones because...? Pronounciation is a inherently classist concept; the harder you make it, the more you entrench classism and intolerance into society. Regardless of the motivation for such correspondents to use a modern form, I personally would applaud it as progress, rather than sneering at it.

kerneloftruth 5y ago
Do you pronounce the T in "soften"... maybe you use fabric "sof-ten-er"? Do you have a brush with "bris-tels"? Those would be more inclusive and modern pronunciations? "I personally would applaud it as progress" One man's progress is another man's regress. Maybe it's the result of the "Hooked on Phonics" generation having grown up.
- toyg 5y ago
  > Do you pronounce the T in "soften" Yes, but I'm not a native speaker, so I have the privilege of seeing the matter from a more neutral perspective. And what I see, when it comes to pronounciations, is that traditionalism is largely illogical, and maintained simply as a way to signal exclusion. It looks harmless on some levels (i.e. figuring out whether somebody is "local" by the way they pronounce certain topological names), but more often than not it's just used to discriminate between education-rich and education-poor, which then translates into straightforward classism where educational systems are deeply and fundamentally classist (like in England or the US). > Those would be more inclusive and modern pronunciations? Yes. > One man's progress is another man's regress. For sure. After all, a few Catholics were ecstatic when pope Benedict XVI reinstated and promoted saying mass in Latin, effectively trying to revert a century of progress. But fighting actual and logical progress tends to be a losing proposition in the long run, and that particular movement kinda died off quickly.