6 ms·

Maybe some accents don't pronounce the b at all, but its presence definitely affects how I pronounce the word, I'm sure I'm not alone in this either. The diffe

by quitit 5y ago

Maybe some accents don't pronounce the b at all, but its presence definitely affects how I pronounce the word, I'm sure I'm not alone in this either. The difference is that my lips touch and close when pronouncing "debt", while they stay entirely open if pronouncing "det" (e.g. in "determined"). The change of airflow imparts a soft "peh" before the "t", making the word sound like a softer form of "dept" rather than identical to "det". I appreciate that spelling in english can be more historical than phonetic, and this might be a case of the tail wagging the dog.

nh23423fefe 5y ago
I'm from New England. I pronounce both det and debt exactly the same. As for debt versus determined. Those are both the same except the vowel is slightly different. debt like head vs determined like head or hit But I couldn't even hear how to put a "puh" sound in the word
- falcolas 5y ago
  Midwest, same pronunciation of debt/det. Determined has a long 'e' for me. Dee-ter-mind (the 'i' is like 'in', not mind)
  - Koshkin 5y ago
    > a long 'e' Note that the term 'long' here refers to the quality of the vowel and not the quantity.
    - falcolas 5y ago
      Correct, yes.
- pharke 5y ago
  > But I couldn't even hear how to put a "puh" sound in the word The comment you're replying to describes it somewhat but since accents can drastically affect how we move our mouths during pronunciation I'll describe how I go about it. "det" by opening your lips slightly and pulling the corners of your mouth back, the tip of the tongue begins pressed against the gum line of your upper incisors, it is then pulled down quickly as you exhale, the jaw moves down slightly and your lips remain open but do not change shape. "debt" by having the lips parted slightly but relaxed forming more of an "O" shape, the tongue is lightly pressed against the back of the top incisors but more flatly with more of the top of the tongue touching, as you exhale the tongue and lower jaw are pulled down but before you finish exhaling the lips are closed which truncates the sound softly. It's important to not close the lips too soon or too quickly otherwise you will wind up pronouncing "dept" with a sharp "puh". You're aiming for the very end of the exhalation and a soft closure to avoid any smacking sound. The major difference seems to be that "det" is spoken from the back of the mouth whereas "debt" comes from the front. The former sounds more inline with a New England accent and the latter with an English accent.
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  I'm also from New England and pronounce it differently, note that the difference is outrageously slight... "debt" is ever-so slightly longer than "det"... best I can place it is that "debt" is pronounced further back in my mouth and "det" is more toothy.
  - SamBam 5y ago
    The thing is, "debt" and "det" can be pronounced very slightly differently without claiming that you're "pronouncing the b". A "b" sound is very distinct in English, involving a closing of the lips. If "debt" were instead spelled "deht" (and pronounced exactly the same), readers would claim that they "pronounce the h".
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - micromacrofoot 5y ago
      I wouldn't go as far to say that the "b" is fully pronounced, I agree, but it's almost like it starts to be pronounced... it kind of softens the "t"?
merpnderp 5y ago
I just spoke both words several times paying attention to my lips and seemed to have the same response as you. The b in debt does distinctly change the sound of the word for me. Maybe a better example is I don't open my mouth as much for debt as I do for met.
- Koshkin 5y ago
  > I don't open my mouth as much This could probably be explained by having to actually move the muscles when opening the mouth in order to pronounce 'm'.
dav_Oz 5y ago
In phonology you can account for that level of detail with "narrow transcription" it is often helped by recording the sound or even MRI[0] (sagittal section) Since it does not significantly alter the meaning of the word if you briefly close or not close your lips (bilabial "preparation") before articulating the dental plosive "t" it is omitted in the "broad transcription". Another related example as a foreign speaker before articulating "psychology" I will form the unvoiced bilabial plosive "p" with my lips before executing "saɪˈkɑlədʒɪ". [0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YIUvX7hebBA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YIUvX7hebBA

by quitit 5y ago

nh23423fefe 5y ago

I'm from New England. I pronounce both det and debt exactly the same. As for debt versus determined. Those are both the same except the vowel is slightly different. debt like head vs determined like head or hit But I couldn't even hear how to put a "puh" sound in the word

falcolas 5y ago
Midwest, same pronunciation of debt/det. Determined has a long 'e' for me. Dee-ter-mind (the 'i' is like 'in', not mind)
- Koshkin 5y ago
  > a long 'e' Note that the term 'long' here refers to the quality of the vowel and not the quantity.
  - falcolas 5y ago
    Correct, yes.
pharke 5y ago
> But I couldn't even hear how to put a "puh" sound in the word The comment you're replying to describes it somewhat but since accents can drastically affect how we move our mouths during pronunciation I'll describe how I go about it. "det" by opening your lips slightly and pulling the corners of your mouth back, the tip of the tongue begins pressed against the gum line of your upper incisors, it is then pulled down quickly as you exhale, the jaw moves down slightly and your lips remain open but do not change shape. "debt" by having the lips parted slightly but relaxed forming more of an "O" shape, the tongue is lightly pressed against the back of the top incisors but more flatly with more of the top of the tongue touching, as you exhale the tongue and lower jaw are pulled down but before you finish exhaling the lips are closed which truncates the sound softly. It's important to not close the lips too soon or too quickly otherwise you will wind up pronouncing "dept" with a sharp "puh". You're aiming for the very end of the exhalation and a soft closure to avoid any smacking sound. The major difference seems to be that "det" is spoken from the back of the mouth whereas "debt" comes from the front. The former sounds more inline with a New England accent and the latter with an English accent.
micromacrofoot 5y ago
I'm also from New England and pronounce it differently, note that the difference is outrageously slight... "debt" is ever-so slightly longer than "det"... best I can place it is that "debt" is pronounced further back in my mouth and "det" is more toothy.
- SamBam 5y ago
  The thing is, "debt" and "det" can be pronounced very slightly differently without claiming that you're "pronouncing the b". A "b" sound is very distinct in English, involving a closing of the lips. If "debt" were instead spelled "deht" (and pronounced exactly the same), readers would claim that they "pronounce the h".
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    I wouldn't go as far to say that the "b" is fully pronounced, I agree, but it's almost like it starts to be pronounced... it kind of softens the "t"?

merpnderp 5y ago

I just spoke both words several times paying attention to my lips and seemed to have the same response as you. The b in debt does distinctly change the sound of the word for me. Maybe a better example is I don't open my mouth as much for debt as I do for met.

Koshkin 5y ago
> I don't open my mouth as much This could probably be explained by having to actually move the muscles when opening the mouth in order to pronounce 'm'.

dav_Oz 5y ago

In phonology you can account for that level of detail with "narrow transcription" it is often helped by recording the sound or even MRI[0] (sagittal section) Since it does not significantly alter the meaning of the word if you briefly close or not close your lips (bilabial "preparation") before articulating the dental plosive "t" it is omitted in the "broad transcription". Another related example as a foreign speaker before articulating "psychology" I will form the unvoiced bilabial plosive "p" with my lips before executing "saɪˈkɑlədʒɪ". [0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YIUvX7hebBA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YIUvX7hebBA