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Im a big fan of South Korean series and movies. One thing that always keep lingering in my back of the mind about them is: Does South Korean culture respect wom

Im a big fan of South Korean series and movies. One thing that always keep lingering in my back of the mind about them is: Does South Korean culture respect woman and their choices with so much open mindedness in real? Not only leading female character even the supporting female characters are shown with so much respect and shown like they have their own personal space and choices. Society accepts their choices.

creakingstairs 5y ago
I’m Korean and the answer is a bit complicated. Historically, women definitely were not given respect. My mother was had to fight to go to a university while taking care of all the younger siblings. She was not given any support while her brothers were given everything. My aunt lived her entire life in servitude for her in-laws family. I remember that my grandfather got angry at her because she wanted to take THREE days off to go travel. Stories like these aren’t uncommon for older women in Korea. This is depicted In short stories written by Han Kang where women become ‘plants’, a decor in one’s home, stripped of their personalities. Thankfully, women’s rights have come a long way now. Most girls will be able to go to university if they want to and pursue a professional career without much judgment. That being said, Korea is still behind in many aspects of gender equality, compared to places like NZ. It’s not all roses either. Very fast changes in society is resulting in conflicts. Gender conflict in Korea is at all times high now. To give an example, 20s men are more likely to be right wing as left wing parties in Korea usually includes women’s right activists.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  Bedevilled was an interesting film irt women's status in Korea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedevilled_(2010_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedevilled_(2010_film)
- southerntofu 5y ago
  > My mother was had to fight to go to a university (...) She was not given any support while her brothers were given everything. My aunt lived her entire life in servitude for her in-laws family. I don't have any reference point for South Korea, but i know of such stories in western Europe (like France) although it was much more common one or two generations ago. Not to say everything is so bad around here, but just don't trust State propaganda that all is good :) > 20s men are more likely to be right wing as left wing parties in Korea usually includes women’s right activists That's a worrying development, although the same kind of political reaction can be found in many places across history. Do you know of good english/french resources to follow Korean politics from an intersectional perspective?
  - creakingstairs 5y ago
    > Do you know of good english/french resources to follow Korean politics from an intersectional perspective? I don't know any atm which unfortunate because our political history is super interesting as we've gone through so much in the last 60 years. I'm sure there are some good articles around. - Because of North Korea, most of our early political history was dominated by anti-communist ideology and strong nationalism. - Also anti-japanese sentiment is one of the best way to gain politicial good will, so both the right wing and left wing accuse each other of being pro-japanese. There is even a dictionary that supposedly tracks of all the "pro-japanese" families/ people. - You can see these two main sentiments in play whenever Koreans talk about Park Chung-hee, probably the most controversial dictator in Korea. He is idolised by right wingers as the person who lead the economic development; and demonised by left wingers as a ruthless dictator and as a pro-japanese. This two themes have been the main themes of political conflict in Korea before 2000 (and they still are). But for younger generation, the main conficts now are inequality (house prices, labour rights, corruption) and gender (abysmal birthrate, marriage rate, just lots of hate in all internet forums).
    - mc32 5y ago
      My understanding —which is a little dated now, was that older gens cared about the Japan question, however most people who are in or have gone through university in the last 20 or 30 years don’t care about that question. They may carry some vestiges of it and recite some WWII atrocity, but don’t hold it against current living people. It used to be Koreans wouldn’t date Japanese out of hate but with few exceptions not many would refuse to date someone because they are Japanese (as business people or exchange students of each other and so on) In any case, it doesn’t make sense to be anti Japanese since they’re basically on the same team these days: democracies who aim to keep their economies vital in the face of competition as well as declining fertility rates and also who must contend with a regional hegemon. Maybe the old shintoburi is still going strong though.
      - decafninja 5y ago
        There is also regionalism in play, though it is not as strong as it used to be, especially amongst younger generations. In particular, the southeast region (Gyungsangdo - GSD) is the core of the right-wing, and the southwest region (Jeollado - JLD) is the core of the left-wing. I really cringe at using the words "right" and "left" here because South Korean politics doesn't neatly align with what many Westerners would think of when hearing those terms. But for lack of better terminology... In any case, the earlier presidents (or quasi-dictators) hailed from GSD and overtly favoritized their home provinces in terms of economic development, etc. while leaving JLD less developed. This has led to resentments that reflect in politics that persist to this day. Some would argue the rivalry goes back even further. Historical texts exist that describe animosity between the GSD and JLD regions back into the Joseon dynasty. Going back even further, the GSD and JLD regions were the rival and enemy kingdoms of Shilla and Baekje respectively, the former which eventually conquered the latter. It used to be that it was even taboo to marry across GSD-JLD lines, but again, this mainly affects the older generations. Personally - while I am Korean-American, my family comes from GSD. My wife is from JLD. My dad is on the conservative spectrum in terms of Korean politics and I was initially worried what he would think when I introduced my then-girlfriend to my parents for the first time. Thankfully it was a total nothingburger and my now-wife and my parents get along absolutely fine.
- rg111 5y ago
  > This is depicted In short stories written by Han Kang where women become ‘plants’, a decor in one’s home, stripped of their personalities. Are there English translations available? I will definitely like to read these. Although, I find it going too easy on patriarchy. In oppressive patriarchies, women are: - servants during the day doing the cooking, cleaning, child-bearing, washing, taking care of the previous generation, etc. - prostitutes during the night.
  - kwillets 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vegetarian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vegetarian
    - yongjik 5y ago
      I've read the story and honestly don't see why it became so famous - guess I'm not an "artsy" type. It's a story of batshit crazy people doing crazy things. You may like the story, but if your goal is to understand gender issues in Korea, you will be disappointed.
- sbmthakur 5y ago
  I guess the rise in the number of unmarried Korean millennials is also an effect of that. https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/culture/2021/09/703_316067.html?RD https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/culture/2021/09/703_316067....
schleck8 5y ago
I think it needs to be differentiated between households and the general atmosphere. Family-wise there isn‘t big of a difference to the US etc in terms of treatment. As for society though, South Korea is one of the least gender equal societies amongst developed nations [1]. Korea also has one of the highest rates of voyeurism, there is teams deployed by the city to check public toilets for spy cams with infrared lights [2][3] And then you have repeated scandals like nth room, a bizarre modern-day sex slavery operation with hundreds of thousands of customers which made the me too movement a bigger thing. And (I can‘t say whether this is accurate though) apparently there is a growing anti-feminism sentiment like in many countries, where especially younger men label feminists as men haters, and get in turn mocked with certain hand gestures. So pretty heated to say the least [1] https://www.economist.com/business/2021/03/05/is-the-lot-of-female-executives-improving https://www.economist.com/business/2021/03/05/is-the-lot-of-... [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/southkorea-women-rights-idUSL8N28F19Y https://www.reuters.com/article/southkorea-women-rights-idUS... [3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molka https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molka
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- yunohn 5y ago
  > South Korea is one of the least gender equal societies amongst developed nations I don’t know much about South Korea, but I disagree with your usage of the Glass Ceiling Index as proof of a generally unequal society.
- ravel-bar-foo 5y ago
  > Korea also has one of the highest rates of voyeurism, there is teams deployed by the city to check public toilets for spy cams with infrared lights [2][3] This is probably not true. Korea is one of the only societies in which voyeurism is a top political issue for women. The police teams deployed to public restrooms to find hidden cameras have IIRC only found one, after searching 10s or 100s of thosands of restrooms. Their existence is not evidence for a high rate of female victimization, but rather evidence that female issues are being taken ever more seriously.
pessimizer 5y ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/01/world/asia/south-korea-men-anti-feminists.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/01/world/asia/south-korea-me... "South Korea has the highest gender wage gap among the wealthy countries. Less than one-fifth of its national lawmakers are women. Women make up only 5.2 percent of the board members of publicly listed businesses, compared with 28 percent in the United States. "And yet, most young men in the country argue that it is men, not women, in South Korea who feel threatened and marginalized. Among South Korean men in their 20s, nearly 79 percent said they were victims of serious gender discrimination, according to a poll in May."
- kijin 5y ago
  There's a huge generational gap. Most of the lawmakers and corporate board members are in their 50s and above. Most of the men who feel that their female peers have been more successful in life, on the other hand, are in their 20s as you mentioned. Women in Korea begin dropping out of the workforce en masse in their early-to-mid 30s, when they get married and have children. That's the point where the trend flips upside down.
- heywintermute 5y ago
  >"And yet, most young men in the country argue that it is men, not women, in South Korea who feel threatened and marginalized. Among South Korean men in their 20s, nearly 79 percent said they were victims of serious gender discrimination, according to a poll in May." Not really an excuse but it's worth pointing out that South Korea has conscription which women are exempt from
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jahnu 5y ago
Can't comment on SK. But in the West we do the same thing. It's a good thing imo to very often represent in our fiction what changes we mostly wish for in reality. We've made great strides in women's equality but are still far from being done with the topic.
theseanl 5y ago
As a South Korean, I'm glad that you've noticed this oddity of women depicted in South Korean media. It is indeed very controversial topic in South Korea. There are a group of people, heavily funded by government, who like to push a narative that Korea's gender equality is very low, and use it as a leverage for their political power. Such politics has affected Korean mass media a lot, and gender conflicts among South Korean men and women are the highest than ever. You can safely assume that such female characters as depiction of crooked gender-culture in South Korea. As a simple proof, fertility rate of South Korea has dropped to 0.6. This is lower than countries in war; Korean men have to serve military for about 2 years in their 20s, and Korea is the least country pay respect to soldiers. I think may American would find astonishing how South Korean, especially female, like to make fun and deride them. During young mens serve military, female develop their own youth culture, and get used to a very twisted view on the society in terms of gender. As a result, popular culture is largely divided in terms of the gender of the audiences. The OP's linked article mentions BTS as one of Korean pop music's success, but ironically, they are not that recognized among Koreans actually; It is a product of those media targetting female audiences. I think this culture is not 'sustainable', if this is the right term to use. As a result of this political groups (which affects legislation) and weird, disgusting self-view and society-view of females, well, fertility rate is dropping at unprecedented rate.
- neuronic 5y ago
  As a German I want to announce my contention to the position for "country who respects soldiers the least".
  - kwillets 5y ago
    In Korea it's more the pay for conscripted soldiers and general living conditions, including bullying, incompetent leadership, suicide, etc. And of course there's a K-drama about that -- D.P.
  - UncleOxidant 5y ago
    As an American I think we could learn something from Germans and Koreans. Not saying that we should totally dis our soldiers, but I'd like to find a happy medium between dissing and worshiping.
vmception 5y ago
I don't get the impression that gender roles evolve the same way in that culture. Like, representation in movies has nothing to do with gendered expectations in society. Whereas those things might be 99% related in some other cultures.

creakingstairs 5y ago

I’m Korean and the answer is a bit complicated. Historically, women definitely were not given respect. My mother was had to fight to go to a university while taking care of all the younger siblings. She was not given any support while her brothers were given everything. My aunt lived her entire life in servitude for her in-laws family. I remember that my grandfather got angry at her because she wanted to take THREE days off to go travel. Stories like these aren’t uncommon for older women in Korea. This is depicted In short stories written by Han Kang where women become ‘plants’, a decor in one’s home, stripped of their personalities. Thankfully, women’s rights have come a long way now. Most girls will be able to go to university if they want to and pursue a professional career without much judgment. That being said, Korea is still behind in many aspects of gender equality, compared to places like NZ. It’s not all roses either. Very fast changes in society is resulting in conflicts. Gender conflict in Korea is at all times high now. To give an example, 20s men are more likely to be right wing as left wing parties in Korea usually includes women’s right activists.

pessimizer 5y ago
Bedevilled was an interesting film irt women's status in Korea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedevilled_(2010_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedevilled_(2010_film)
southerntofu 5y ago
> My mother was had to fight to go to a university (...) She was not given any support while her brothers were given everything. My aunt lived her entire life in servitude for her in-laws family. I don't have any reference point for South Korea, but i know of such stories in western Europe (like France) although it was much more common one or two generations ago. Not to say everything is so bad around here, but just don't trust State propaganda that all is good :) > 20s men are more likely to be right wing as left wing parties in Korea usually includes women’s right activists That's a worrying development, although the same kind of political reaction can be found in many places across history. Do you know of good english/french resources to follow Korean politics from an intersectional perspective?
- creakingstairs 5y ago
  > Do you know of good english/french resources to follow Korean politics from an intersectional perspective? I don't know any atm which unfortunate because our political history is super interesting as we've gone through so much in the last 60 years. I'm sure there are some good articles around. - Because of North Korea, most of our early political history was dominated by anti-communist ideology and strong nationalism. - Also anti-japanese sentiment is one of the best way to gain politicial good will, so both the right wing and left wing accuse each other of being pro-japanese. There is even a dictionary that supposedly tracks of all the "pro-japanese" families/ people. - You can see these two main sentiments in play whenever Koreans talk about Park Chung-hee, probably the most controversial dictator in Korea. He is idolised by right wingers as the person who lead the economic development; and demonised by left wingers as a ruthless dictator and as a pro-japanese. This two themes have been the main themes of political conflict in Korea before 2000 (and they still are). But for younger generation, the main conficts now are inequality (house prices, labour rights, corruption) and gender (abysmal birthrate, marriage rate, just lots of hate in all internet forums).
  - mc32 5y ago
    My understanding —which is a little dated now, was that older gens cared about the Japan question, however most people who are in or have gone through university in the last 20 or 30 years don’t care about that question. They may carry some vestiges of it and recite some WWII atrocity, but don’t hold it against current living people. It used to be Koreans wouldn’t date Japanese out of hate but with few exceptions not many would refuse to date someone because they are Japanese (as business people or exchange students of each other and so on) In any case, it doesn’t make sense to be anti Japanese since they’re basically on the same team these days: democracies who aim to keep their economies vital in the face of competition as well as declining fertility rates and also who must contend with a regional hegemon. Maybe the old shintoburi is still going strong though.
    - decafninja 5y ago
      There is also regionalism in play, though it is not as strong as it used to be, especially amongst younger generations. In particular, the southeast region (Gyungsangdo - GSD) is the core of the right-wing, and the southwest region (Jeollado - JLD) is the core of the left-wing. I really cringe at using the words "right" and "left" here because South Korean politics doesn't neatly align with what many Westerners would think of when hearing those terms. But for lack of better terminology... In any case, the earlier presidents (or quasi-dictators) hailed from GSD and overtly favoritized their home provinces in terms of economic development, etc. while leaving JLD less developed. This has led to resentments that reflect in politics that persist to this day. Some would argue the rivalry goes back even further. Historical texts exist that describe animosity between the GSD and JLD regions back into the Joseon dynasty. Going back even further, the GSD and JLD regions were the rival and enemy kingdoms of Shilla and Baekje respectively, the former which eventually conquered the latter. It used to be that it was even taboo to marry across GSD-JLD lines, but again, this mainly affects the older generations. Personally - while I am Korean-American, my family comes from GSD. My wife is from JLD. My dad is on the conservative spectrum in terms of Korean politics and I was initially worried what he would think when I introduced my then-girlfriend to my parents for the first time. Thankfully it was a total nothingburger and my now-wife and my parents get along absolutely fine.
rg111 5y ago
> This is depicted In short stories written by Han Kang where women become ‘plants’, a decor in one’s home, stripped of their personalities. Are there English translations available? I will definitely like to read these. Although, I find it going too easy on patriarchy. In oppressive patriarchies, women are: - servants during the day doing the cooking, cleaning, child-bearing, washing, taking care of the previous generation, etc. - prostitutes during the night.
- kwillets 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vegetarian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vegetarian
  - yongjik 5y ago
    I've read the story and honestly don't see why it became so famous - guess I'm not an "artsy" type. It's a story of batshit crazy people doing crazy things. You may like the story, but if your goal is to understand gender issues in Korea, you will be disappointed.
sbmthakur 5y ago
I guess the rise in the number of unmarried Korean millennials is also an effect of that. https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/culture/2021/09/703_316067.html?RD https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/culture/2021/09/703_316067....

schleck8 5y ago

I think it needs to be differentiated between households and the general atmosphere. Family-wise there isn‘t big of a difference to the US etc in terms of treatment. As for society though, South Korea is one of the least gender equal societies amongst developed nations [1]. Korea also has one of the highest rates of voyeurism, there is teams deployed by the city to check public toilets for spy cams with infrared lights [2][3] And then you have repeated scandals like nth room, a bizarre modern-day sex slavery operation with hundreds of thousands of customers which made the me too movement a bigger thing. And (I can‘t say whether this is accurate though) apparently there is a growing anti-feminism sentiment like in many countries, where especially younger men label feminists as men haters, and get in turn mocked with certain hand gestures. So pretty heated to say the least [1] https://www.economist.com/business/2021/03/05/is-the-lot-of-female-executives-improving https://www.economist.com/business/2021/03/05/is-the-lot-of-... [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/southkorea-women-rights-idUSL8N28F19Y https://www.reuters.com/article/southkorea-women-rights-idUS... [3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molka https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molka

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
yunohn 5y ago
> South Korea is one of the least gender equal societies amongst developed nations I don’t know much about South Korea, but I disagree with your usage of the Glass Ceiling Index as proof of a generally unequal society.
ravel-bar-foo 5y ago
> Korea also has one of the highest rates of voyeurism, there is teams deployed by the city to check public toilets for spy cams with infrared lights [2][3] This is probably not true. Korea is one of the only societies in which voyeurism is a top political issue for women. The police teams deployed to public restrooms to find hidden cameras have IIRC only found one, after searching 10s or 100s of thosands of restrooms. Their existence is not evidence for a high rate of female victimization, but rather evidence that female issues are being taken ever more seriously.

pessimizer 5y ago

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/01/world/asia/south-korea-men-anti-feminists.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/01/world/asia/south-korea-me... "South Korea has the highest gender wage gap among the wealthy countries. Less than one-fifth of its national lawmakers are women. Women make up only 5.2 percent of the board members of publicly listed businesses, compared with 28 percent in the United States. "And yet, most young men in the country argue that it is men, not women, in South Korea who feel threatened and marginalized. Among South Korean men in their 20s, nearly 79 percent said they were victims of serious gender discrimination, according to a poll in May."

kijin 5y ago
There's a huge generational gap. Most of the lawmakers and corporate board members are in their 50s and above. Most of the men who feel that their female peers have been more successful in life, on the other hand, are in their 20s as you mentioned. Women in Korea begin dropping out of the workforce en masse in their early-to-mid 30s, when they get married and have children. That's the point where the trend flips upside down.
heywintermute 5y ago
>"And yet, most young men in the country argue that it is men, not women, in South Korea who feel threatened and marginalized. Among South Korean men in their 20s, nearly 79 percent said they were victims of serious gender discrimination, according to a poll in May." Not really an excuse but it's worth pointing out that South Korea has conscription which women are exempt from

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jahnu 5y ago

Can't comment on SK. But in the West we do the same thing. It's a good thing imo to very often represent in our fiction what changes we mostly wish for in reality. We've made great strides in women's equality but are still far from being done with the topic.

theseanl 5y ago

As a South Korean, I'm glad that you've noticed this oddity of women depicted in South Korean media. It is indeed very controversial topic in South Korea. There are a group of people, heavily funded by government, who like to push a narative that Korea's gender equality is very low, and use it as a leverage for their political power. Such politics has affected Korean mass media a lot, and gender conflicts among South Korean men and women are the highest than ever. You can safely assume that such female characters as depiction of crooked gender-culture in South Korea. As a simple proof, fertility rate of South Korea has dropped to 0.6. This is lower than countries in war; Korean men have to serve military for about 2 years in their 20s, and Korea is the least country pay respect to soldiers. I think may American would find astonishing how South Korean, especially female, like to make fun and deride them. During young mens serve military, female develop their own youth culture, and get used to a very twisted view on the society in terms of gender. As a result, popular culture is largely divided in terms of the gender of the audiences. The OP's linked article mentions BTS as one of Korean pop music's success, but ironically, they are not that recognized among Koreans actually; It is a product of those media targetting female audiences. I think this culture is not 'sustainable', if this is the right term to use. As a result of this political groups (which affects legislation) and weird, disgusting self-view and society-view of females, well, fertility rate is dropping at unprecedented rate.

neuronic 5y ago
As a German I want to announce my contention to the position for "country who respects soldiers the least".
- kwillets 5y ago
  In Korea it's more the pay for conscripted soldiers and general living conditions, including bullying, incompetent leadership, suicide, etc. And of course there's a K-drama about that -- D.P.
- UncleOxidant 5y ago
  As an American I think we could learn something from Germans and Koreans. Not saying that we should totally dis our soldiers, but I'd like to find a happy medium between dissing and worshiping.

vmception 5y ago

I don't get the impression that gender roles evolve the same way in that culture. Like, representation in movies has nothing to do with gendered expectations in society. Whereas those things might be 99% related in some other cultures.