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The hard part is what to do with 90s-era tech when times are good? Nobody’s buying that old stuff (hobbyists aside). So then you just run these plants at a loss
by chongli 5y ago
The hard part is what to do with 90s-era tech when times are good? Nobody’s buying that old stuff (hobbyists aside). So then you just run these plants at a loss? I’d hate to be an engineer at one of those places. Seems like very soul-crushing work.
- vharuck 5y agoOne option is government subsidies, like what's done for farms and military hardware. Just keep buying it up, even if it rots or rusts. The goal is to make sure those industries remain healthy and don't slip back in expertise.
- onionisafruit 5y agoMost governments can’t afford to do that.
- hda2 5y agoI'm pretty sure the majority of countries can. We're talking 90s-era infrastructure that costs less than a single modern passenger airplane to build and run. Governments can subsidize their use in local industries or even build the infrastructure themselves doing what many governments already do with power, telecommunications, and transport.
- quartesixte 5y agoThe vast majority of countries, I reckon, don’t have enough domestic stability or human resources to maintain any sort of thing like that. Let alone the capital. It takes a small army to run a industrial-production level facility, a few of which need advanced degrees and experience. The G7 and G20 aren’t an exclusive club for nothing. There are real things behind GDP.
- KirillPanov 5y agoEvery government can afford that: simply tariff the imports that threaten to displace this capability. If that makes goods too expensive for the population (it won't) they couldn't afford them anyways. They were simply paying for the goods by mortgaging their future.
- hda2 5y ago> So then you just run these plants at a loss? If there is no demand then yes, absolutely. It's normal for countries (inc. the US) to run and subsidize their infrastructure at a loss if it is critical to their national security.
- baq 5y agoExactly, same with health care.
- quartesixte 5y agoThis is what is often famously referred to as the military-industrial complex. The US military has a large pool of mechanics and technicians they constantly train who then go on to private sector. Building things, and building things right, take a level of physical dexterity and mechanical intelligence that must be honed. Ever see a machinist run a hand over a milled surface, call it out of tolerance by 0.005” and then the calipers confirm? You can’t learn that from a book that shit is straight just 25 years of looking and touching surfaces that smooth. Drilling straight holes into metal frames that bend and give is an art. You can’t let that die. So the military funds shops everywhere to build widgets for the war machine to keep people employed and those skills alive in the event that when we do need tens of thousands of them at once, there are seasoned veterans ready to lead the way. And in the mean time, they make $150k a year running a small machine shop in Michigan subcontracting for Northrup or Lockheed or something.
- objektif 5y agoThats you though not millions of people who may enjoy that kind of work.
- skybrian 5y agoEmbedded chips are in everything and they are often older tech. (Maybe not that old, but far from the latest.)
- heavyset_go 5y agoThere are plenty of products and industries that don't require chips built with the latest tech on the market. You might not put those chips in the newest computers or phones, but that doesn't mean they can't power other products. Plenty of scientific and industrial products and processes are suited well by "old" tech. Same thing with many consumer products. My car and blender don't need CPUs manufactured on 3nm nodes.
- celtain 5y agoPerhaps students could use or even operate them. Undergraduate level electrical engineers would love to have access to a fab, even one a couple decades behind cutting edge.
- Pietertje 5y agoWell, that tech is still being used heavily for a lot of chips. Companies like NXP still have fabs of 90s tech running smoothly. Only the high-end chips need new tech. Also, equipment from that era is still in high demand on the second hand market (especially now...).
- chongli 5y agoBut isn’t a new fab company going to have to compete with NXP in those markets? That seems very difficult for a brand new company to do, given no technological advantage.
- unethical_ban 5y agoIn America, we have a gigantic public works program known as the US Military, with guaranteed work, free college, public health insurance and a pension if you stay in long enough. Why not do it for just about every critical part of life? Why only do it for the "being ready to kill adversaries" subset?
- jes 5y agoDoesn’t every (US) government job provide most of that, except maybe free college? If you work for the IRS or the USPS, don’t you get guaranteed work, public health insurance and a pension after some number of decades of service?
- unethical_ban 5y agoI'm talking about expanding what jobs are federally funded and guaranteed. In the context of this thread and supply chain security, I'm talking about a federally subsidized chipmaking industry for national security purposes. More broadly I think about all teachers and first responders.