3 ms·

Is North Korea using doubles to hide the death of Kim Jong-Il?

9 points by rglovejoy 18y ago

jwilliams 18y ago
The article doesn't seem to indicate why they'd want to hide the fact? I'd expect the power vacuum following found be pretty difficult to hide. More logical explanation would be that he's using his doubles for exactly the intent he devised - to stand in for him.
- rglovejoy 18y ago
  See the Wikipedia article on Kim Jong-il: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-Il http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-Il Supposedly, schoolchildren there are taught that both Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il are superhuman beings that do not exercise the same bodily functions that conventional humans do. Kim Il-sung was already fairly old when he died in 1994, so it was not a problem for the propagandists to acknowledge his death. Even so, he is still the president of the country, and is in many ways treated as though he were still alive. Kim Jong-il would be either 66 or 67, depending on who you ask. In 2003, he would have been in his early 60s, so for him to die would be a crushing blow to the faith in his superpowers, and by extension, to the government. Having body doubles impersonating a dead leader is certainly a strange practice, but it is most likely not the strangest thing to happen in North Korea.
  - netcan 18y ago
    What would be the strangest thing?
  - cturner 18y ago
    It's tempting to flag this - politics not hacking. However, North Korea is interesting in a special way - because it's so extreme. It's like one of those exercises where you run some code the way it's not meant to be run with the idea of "I wonder how far we can push this". Starving people, no foreign relations, extreme corruption, yet still it chugs along as it has for two decades. The horror is resiliant. > Supposedly, schoolchildren there are taught that both > Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il are superhuman beings that > do not exercise the same bodily functions that > conventional humans do. I think it's a lot more practical than this. North Korea is like one of those systems where you've deleted all the source code but the process is still running. So long as you don't stop the process, and can keep the power running, it just ticks along. Of course, you can't make change beyond that provisioned for before the problem developed. So.. you just run with it because you don't have any other options. The interesting thing is - if it collapses the results could be profound for all of us. The south feels a strong companionship to the people in the north even though, for practical purposes they now have very little in common. The south is prosperous.and educated and liberal. Currently the humanitarian crisis is hidden behind the parallel, but as soon as the state flounders in the north then countries around the world (locals like the south, China and possibly Russia) will feel obliged to help, and the west will probably play a role too due to their close historical relationship to South Korea. North Korea is a two-state society - the ruling group, and the rest. The ruling group will do whatever they can to stay in power. In the west, I wouldn't believe that a lie like this could be sustained. I've met people from former eastern-european countries who really do know how to keep a secret, and to separate their clan lives from their public face. Even if he's still alive then it's an amazing situation for the resolve he has shown to avoid the mistake (on a selfish level) of attempting gradual reform in a system that is beyond it.
binarray2000 18y ago
If this is true, it's a perfect way for the oppressive North Korean government to stay in power forever while foisting KJI doubles on us every time one of them dies.
Protophore 18y ago
Is there any reason why a successor to Kim Jong-Il could not take this place if he actually did pass away? It's not like the populace of North Korea is just waiting for him to die so that they can revolt. Or that the communist party would have to worry about losing power in an election to choose a new ruler. The only reason I can see for North Korea to enact such a ruse would be to maintain the guise of a strong North Korean leader to the rest of the world while they groom a successor. I can't see many internal reasons why they would need to act in such a manner.
sheriff 18y ago
would you prefer they use floats?
- hugh 18y ago
  I would have thought that a short would be sufficient.
mhb 18y ago
Don't know, but if both doubles should turn up alive in the same room and you need to know which is the real one, step on the cat and see toward which double she flees. Be sure to check for a cat double though.
steveplace 18y ago
Copycats. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106673/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106673/
- rit 18y ago
  Rather, Dave was a bit of a ripoff of "Double Star", for which Heinlein got a Hugo way back in 1957: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Star http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Star Pay the Grand Master his proper due!
byrneseyeview 18y ago
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=285766 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=285766 Interestingly enough, the same story was submitted earlier, is now [dead], and has been replaced by a lookalike.

9 points by rglovejoy 18y ago

The article doesn't seem to indicate why they'd want to hide the fact? I'd expect the power vacuum following found be pretty difficult to hide. More logical explanation would be that he's using his doubles for exactly the intent he devised - to stand in for him.

rglovejoy 18y ago
See the Wikipedia article on Kim Jong-il: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-Il http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-Il Supposedly, schoolchildren there are taught that both Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il are superhuman beings that do not exercise the same bodily functions that conventional humans do. Kim Il-sung was already fairly old when he died in 1994, so it was not a problem for the propagandists to acknowledge his death. Even so, he is still the president of the country, and is in many ways treated as though he were still alive. Kim Jong-il would be either 66 or 67, depending on who you ask. In 2003, he would have been in his early 60s, so for him to die would be a crushing blow to the faith in his superpowers, and by extension, to the government. Having body doubles impersonating a dead leader is certainly a strange practice, but it is most likely not the strangest thing to happen in North Korea.
- netcan 18y ago
  What would be the strangest thing?
- cturner 18y ago
  It's tempting to flag this - politics not hacking. However, North Korea is interesting in a special way - because it's so extreme. It's like one of those exercises where you run some code the way it's not meant to be run with the idea of "I wonder how far we can push this". Starving people, no foreign relations, extreme corruption, yet still it chugs along as it has for two decades. The horror is resiliant. > Supposedly, schoolchildren there are taught that both > Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il are superhuman beings that > do not exercise the same bodily functions that > conventional humans do. I think it's a lot more practical than this. North Korea is like one of those systems where you've deleted all the source code but the process is still running. So long as you don't stop the process, and can keep the power running, it just ticks along. Of course, you can't make change beyond that provisioned for before the problem developed. So.. you just run with it because you don't have any other options. The interesting thing is - if it collapses the results could be profound for all of us. The south feels a strong companionship to the people in the north even though, for practical purposes they now have very little in common. The south is prosperous.and educated and liberal. Currently the humanitarian crisis is hidden behind the parallel, but as soon as the state flounders in the north then countries around the world (locals like the south, China and possibly Russia) will feel obliged to help, and the west will probably play a role too due to their close historical relationship to South Korea. North Korea is a two-state society - the ruling group, and the rest. The ruling group will do whatever they can to stay in power. In the west, I wouldn't believe that a lie like this could be sustained. I've met people from former eastern-european countries who really do know how to keep a secret, and to separate their clan lives from their public face. Even if he's still alive then it's an amazing situation for the resolve he has shown to avoid the mistake (on a selfish level) of attempting gradual reform in a system that is beyond it.

binarray2000 18y ago

If this is true, it's a perfect way for the oppressive North Korean government to stay in power forever while foisting KJI doubles on us every time one of them dies.

Protophore 18y ago

Is there any reason why a successor to Kim Jong-Il could not take this place if he actually did pass away? It's not like the populace of North Korea is just waiting for him to die so that they can revolt. Or that the communist party would have to worry about losing power in an election to choose a new ruler. The only reason I can see for North Korea to enact such a ruse would be to maintain the guise of a strong North Korean leader to the rest of the world while they groom a successor. I can't see many internal reasons why they would need to act in such a manner.

sheriff 18y ago

would you prefer they use floats?

hugh 18y ago
I would have thought that a short would be sufficient.

mhb 18y ago

Don't know, but if both doubles should turn up alive in the same room and you need to know which is the real one, step on the cat and see toward which double she flees. Be sure to check for a cat double though.

steveplace 18y ago

Copycats. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106673/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106673/

rit 18y ago
Rather, Dave was a bit of a ripoff of "Double Star", for which Heinlein got a Hugo way back in 1957: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Star http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Star Pay the Grand Master his proper due!

byrneseyeview 18y ago

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=285766 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=285766 Interestingly enough, the same story was submitted earlier, is now [dead], and has been replaced by a lookalike.