6 ms·
Doesn't litography use some pretty wild chemicals. Like Chlorine Trifloride? Thing that when burned emits hydrochloric acid and hydrofluoric acid. Aka thing tha
by Ygg2 5y ago
Doesn't litography use some pretty wild chemicals. Like Chlorine Trifloride? Thing that when burned emits hydrochloric acid and hydrofluoric acid. Aka thing that burns ashes. Again.
I assume making those machines is pretty crazy as well.
- scheme271 5y agoThe one of the widely used light sources for EUV lithography uses a laser to zap molten tin to get the tin plasma to ionize and emit EUV light. It's fairly exotic and really inefficient but is needed for the smaller node sizes.
- Spooky23 5y agoI worked at a facility with experimental lithography machines. One of the nasties looked like water, but would pass through your skin and melt your bones. Fun.
- Ygg2 5y agoThat's wild. Something right out of the zone. Any idea what is it?
- Spooky23 5y agoHF was one of the nastier ones, but the one I’m thinking of sounded nastier. I’ll look for it in old training materials in the AM.
- tyingq 5y agoHydrofluoric acid, though I don't think it melts your bones in a dramatic/fast way. It seems to be partially so dangerous because it doesn't "burn" right away, and as you say, is absorbed quickly in skin. So you might not rinse it off quickly. "Piranha solution" (sulfuric acid, water, and hydrogen peroxide) is closer to what tv/movies portray hydrofluoric acid being like. That is, being able to disappear a body in it.
- marban 5y agoSo that might be the kinda stuff they used to get rid of all the bodies in The Blacklist.
- codewithcheese 5y agoNileRed recently demonstrated "Piranha solution" effect on a Chicken Leg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTVd_WxblGI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTVd_WxblGI
- thaumasiotes 5y ago> It seems to be partially so dangerous because it doesn't "burn" right away, and as you say, is absorbed quickly in skin. So you might not rinse it off quickly. It seems to be dangerous in a lot of different horrible ways. It's always fun reading an MSDS for substances like this: https://www.airgas.com/msds/001077.pdf https://www.airgas.com/msds/001077.pdf
- olliej 5y agoprobably hydrofluoric acid? I worked at IGNS in NZ and they used it for dissolving rocks. Many warning signs. [edit: to clarify I mean safety warning signs, not warning signs of being in contact with it. My assumption is excruciating agony which would be a good indicator :D]
- wombatpm 5y agoHF keeps regenerating itself until it hits bone and forms calcium floride. Get exposed to enough of it and it will pull the calcium out of your cells, stopping muscles, heart beats, and neuron firing.
- olliej 5y agoPure HF is a gas and can be inhaled. It does bad things, Derek Lowe has a write up: https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/things-i-won-t-touch-1 https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/things-i-won-t-tou... I'm not sure what concentration IGNS was using it in as I'm mercifully a computer person, but I had a friend who worked in their labs and took me through them one time :D
- kragen 5y agoSometimes, yes. Interestingly these ridiculously reactive materials aren't the ones that tend to contaminate the environment most; they don't last long enough outside a carefully controlled lab. It's, surprisingly, the almost nontoxic materials like perchloroethylene that tend to cause big headaches, because they're unreactive enough to survive in the environment for many years.
- Ygg2 5y agoArticle mentioned fires. I remembered that ClF3 fires can't be extinguished. They need to burn out.
- User23 5y agoElemental fluorine is nasty toxic, but it doesn’t really pollute the environment because it’s too busy oxidizing the first thing it finds and forming a never gonna let you go bond.
- aidenn0 5y agoKind of the reverse of mercury; elemental mercury is relatively non-toxic, but it seems like almost all mercury compounds are nasty. [edit] Chronic exposure to small amounts or acute exposure to large amounts of mercury vapor is toxic; it's just that most compounds are worse.
- kragen 5y agoYup. Cinnabar is the exception, being less toxic than both metallic mercury and most other metal sulfids.
- mgiampapa 5y agoBeats breathing fluorine!
- NotVerstappen 5y agoGive a man fluoride toothpaste and he'll have good breath for a month. Give him fluorine gas and he'll have good breath for the rest of his life.
- Bud 5y agoChlorine trifluoride also sets fire to glass on contact. And asbestos. And tungsten. And titanium. And finally, people.
- Aerroon 5y agoHow do you store it?
- jazzyjackson 5y agoFound this on the wiki, quoting the rocket scientist John Drury Clark: > It can be kept in some of the ordinary structural metals—steel, copper, aluminum, etc.—because of the formation of a thin film of insoluble metal fluoride that protects the bulk of the metal, just as the invisible coat of oxide on aluminum keeps it from burning up in the atmosphere. If, however, this coat is melted or scrubbed off, and has no chance to reform, the operator is confronted with the problem of coping with a metal-fluorine fire. For dealing with this situation, I have always recommended a good pair of running shoes.
- baq 5y agoThis is a quote from Ignition! - a very very very good book about liquid rocket fuels. PDF is available online after a quick google. A must read for anyone on HN - imagine what it’s like to be a rocket fuel hacker.
- dogsgobork 5y agoFor anyone interested in how terrible Chlorine trifluoride is, it's on perpetual HN favorite Derek Lowe's list of "Things I won't work with" https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/sand-won-t-save-you-time https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/sand-won-t-save-yo...
- orangepurple 5y agoPrevious discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1148425 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1148425 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5546450 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5546450 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29775910 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29775910
- cshimmin 5y agoI also thought that it would be the article about FOOF, but actually the GP linked to a different one about chlorine triflouride. Worth a read!
- brohee 5y agoIt's to be noted that since the article Ignition! has been reprinted, and is indeed an awesome book.
- atq2119 5y agoIt doesn't really sound like this was a fab though. Just a factory that builds tools for fabs. So who knows, but chances are that this factory doesn't operate with the worst stuff.