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it's not really a secret that most of Hollywood, the media, and much of progressivism and culture in general is organized around liberal jewish values. Cro

it's not really a secret that most of Hollywood, the media, and much of progressivism and culture in general is organized around liberal jewish values. Cross 'jewish' and that line make sense. There is nothing specifically 'jewish' about those values. If anything, they're Greek. We don't owe a lot to the pre-Socratic societies, apart from them inspiring the Greeks to their greatness. In Western civilization, everything after that was inspired by what the Greeks made of what came before them.

Alex3917 15y ago
I think that what's uniquely jewish is the implicit model of spiritual development that's glorified in so much of modern culture. That is, in judaism spiritual development comes from fully engaging with the physical and secular world, and immersing yourself in all of its problems and opportunities. In protestantism, spiritual development comes from contemplative experiences (e.g. thoreau) that are set apart from everyday life, that hopefully allow you to connect more fully with both the secular world and your religious values once you get back to mainstream society. And in fundamentalist christianity, spiritual development comes from the active and purposeful rejection of secular society. I think the reason we have so many extremists in the GOP right now is as a reaction to the existential arrogance of modern liberalism. E.g. not only do fundamentalists see things like Starbucks and Michael Cera / Seth Rogan movies as endorsing an implicit set of values and model of spiritual development, but they see also them as basically purposely shitting all over their way of life just to rub it in. That's partly why we're increasingly getting politicians like michele bachmann and rick perry.
- Helianthus 15y ago
  I think this is rather accurate, and wanted to say so after attacking you yesterday in another topic.
- Gormo 15y ago
  Most traditional religions treated the spiritual sphere as part and parcel of life in the physical world, rather than something to be segregated and distinguished from it. Only a handful of religions, mostly under the influence of Platonic philosophy, have deviated from this. But the concept is no more specific to Judiasm than it is to Catholicism, Hinduism, or Roman Paganism. The opposing trend, which you might say treats religion as a form of escapism, is something that's really found only in certain strains of Protestantism, Islam, and Buddhism.
  - Alex3917 15y ago
    True, but in addition to not being especially influential in the US, catholicism and hinduism aren't exactly socially liberal either. E.g. hinduism may not be isolationist, but what you can do in terms of your social life and your career and family is still very firmly prescribed. Plus if all the Hollywood financiers were catholic do you really think we'd be getting movies like Superbad? I feel like even the most liberal catholics like Steven Colbert wouldn't have been responsible for creating that sort of culture had they been in charge.

Alex3917 15y ago

I think that what's uniquely jewish is the implicit model of spiritual development that's glorified in so much of modern culture. That is, in judaism spiritual development comes from fully engaging with the physical and secular world, and immersing yourself in all of its problems and opportunities. In protestantism, spiritual development comes from contemplative experiences (e.g. thoreau) that are set apart from everyday life, that hopefully allow you to connect more fully with both the secular world and your religious values once you get back to mainstream society. And in fundamentalist christianity, spiritual development comes from the active and purposeful rejection of secular society. I think the reason we have so many extremists in the GOP right now is as a reaction to the existential arrogance of modern liberalism. E.g. not only do fundamentalists see things like Starbucks and Michael Cera / Seth Rogan movies as endorsing an implicit set of values and model of spiritual development, but they see also them as basically purposely shitting all over their way of life just to rub it in. That's partly why we're increasingly getting politicians like michele bachmann and rick perry.

Helianthus 15y ago
I think this is rather accurate, and wanted to say so after attacking you yesterday in another topic.
Gormo 15y ago
Most traditional religions treated the spiritual sphere as part and parcel of life in the physical world, rather than something to be segregated and distinguished from it. Only a handful of religions, mostly under the influence of Platonic philosophy, have deviated from this. But the concept is no more specific to Judiasm than it is to Catholicism, Hinduism, or Roman Paganism. The opposing trend, which you might say treats religion as a form of escapism, is something that's really found only in certain strains of Protestantism, Islam, and Buddhism.
- Alex3917 15y ago
  True, but in addition to not being especially influential in the US, catholicism and hinduism aren't exactly socially liberal either. E.g. hinduism may not be isolationist, but what you can do in terms of your social life and your career and family is still very firmly prescribed. Plus if all the Hollywood financiers were catholic do you really think we'd be getting movies like Superbad? I feel like even the most liberal catholics like Steven Colbert wouldn't have been responsible for creating that sort of culture had they been in charge.