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Deep topsoil takes a long time to build. Generations. Centuries. Like the Midwestern US with buffalo herds moving about and fire for thousands of years. Or old

Deep topsoil takes a long time to build. Generations. Centuries. Like the Midwestern US with buffalo herds moving about and fire for thousands of years. Or old fields that have been properly manured and cultivated for generations. But an improvement, however small, is still an improvement.

goda90 5y ago
Gabe Brown claims that they increased the amount of organic matter in their soil nearly 10x in two decades, and that's while discovering what worked over the years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yPjoh9YJMk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yPjoh9YJMk
- hinkley 5y ago
  Elaine Ingham also has some things to say on the subject. Part of forest soil creation is the life and death cycles of trees. We haven’t let many trees alone for the sort of time frame this takes, and we haven’t tried to speed things along by accelerating tree deaths a bit (we clear a forest, which is very, very different than making trees fall down and then leaving them where they lay).
hinkley 5y ago
If you don’t know anything about fruit trees, it can take an awful long time to get an apple. If you do, then a handful of years can accomplish a lot. We definitely need to reevaluate this idea of how long it takes to build topsoil, if you actually want to make it instead of waiting for it to just happen.
jazzyjackson 5y ago
The volume of topsoil when you multiply it out at x feet deep by y millions of acres is truly staggering, but you can certainly build rich soil very quickly (single digit years) if you only need a small farms-worth. Occasional grazing and fire is not the most efficient method. I can't help but recommend the book "farmers of forty centuries" by FH King for a look at what it takes to produce 3 seasons of crops per year to feed the populations of China/Japan/Korea on very slim, mountainous real estate circa 1900. Spoiler alert: it's a lot of hu-manure and manual labor.

goda90 5y ago

Gabe Brown claims that they increased the amount of organic matter in their soil nearly 10x in two decades, and that's while discovering what worked over the years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yPjoh9YJMk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yPjoh9YJMk

hinkley 5y ago
Elaine Ingham also has some things to say on the subject. Part of forest soil creation is the life and death cycles of trees. We haven’t let many trees alone for the sort of time frame this takes, and we haven’t tried to speed things along by accelerating tree deaths a bit (we clear a forest, which is very, very different than making trees fall down and then leaving them where they lay).

hinkley 5y ago

If you don’t know anything about fruit trees, it can take an awful long time to get an apple. If you do, then a handful of years can accomplish a lot. We definitely need to reevaluate this idea of how long it takes to build topsoil, if you actually want to make it instead of waiting for it to just happen.

jazzyjackson 5y ago

The volume of topsoil when you multiply it out at x feet deep by y millions of acres is truly staggering, but you can certainly build rich soil very quickly (single digit years) if you only need a small farms-worth. Occasional grazing and fire is not the most efficient method. I can't help but recommend the book "farmers of forty centuries" by FH King for a look at what it takes to produce 3 seasons of crops per year to feed the populations of China/Japan/Korea on very slim, mountainous real estate circa 1900. Spoiler alert: it's a lot of hu-manure and manual labor.